For clarification, "Of course TMJ can cause TN, but always?" would be better worded as "Of course TMJ can cause TN, but all TN?"
04 Dec 2012 at 10:14 pm
#103
"It is difficult to imagine antidepressants taking away "burning, aching body pain" unless off course one is drugged up into a cabbage!" No, wrong again. At a low dose, antidepressants can provide remarkable relief from burning and aching body pain as well as other types of neuropathic pain.
Is this quoted verbatim? If so, any 'professional' writing 'off course' on their promotive site would of course put me off immediately!
04 Dec 2012 at 10:15 pm
#104
This thread is becoming a rather pointless argument with only EJC now. And it is clear that EJC has a very closed mind and is determined to stay with Dr Amir and inflict this quackery on his wife.
I woud love to actually hear from EJC's wife herself, however.....
Hopefully other Newbies who have read this far have gleaned enough information from this argument to realise the importance of doing proper research, of educating themselves in basic anatomy, neurology and the principles of the rudiments of scientific research so that they are able to make properly informed decisions about their health care choices and not be sucked into the dubious world of charlatans and quackery that sadly abounds.
I am leaving this thread now as there is clearly nothing further I can say to change EJC's mind and that is fine. But it is not EJC (and Jencor the original poster) I am concerned about. It is all the other Newbies who come on here seeking legitimate, reliable infromation they can trust about MS. To all of you I repeat, Please, please, be aware of the many alternative treatments for MS out there that have only one real aim in mind: To separate a desperate fool from their mony and don't be sucked in.
Cheers,
Belinda
I woud love to actually hear from EJC's wife herself, however.....
Hopefully other Newbies who have read this far have gleaned enough information from this argument to realise the importance of doing proper research, of educating themselves in basic anatomy, neurology and the principles of the rudiments of scientific research so that they are able to make properly informed decisions about their health care choices and not be sucked into the dubious world of charlatans and quackery that sadly abounds.
I am leaving this thread now as there is clearly nothing further I can say to change EJC's mind and that is fine. But it is not EJC (and Jencor the original poster) I am concerned about. It is all the other Newbies who come on here seeking legitimate, reliable infromation they can trust about MS. To all of you I repeat, Please, please, be aware of the many alternative treatments for MS out there that have only one real aim in mind: To separate a desperate fool from their mony and don't be sucked in.
Cheers,
Belinda
04 Dec 2012 at 10:28 pm
#105
Why does it seem so far fetched to many of you that skeletal misalignment or vascualr issues may be as instrumental in helping a paitent with "MS" as a drug that produced that even the manufacturer doesn't understand how it actually works?
The reasons we do not believe in skeletal misalignment etc are very clear from our posts, to wit, not only is the underlying theory utter rubbish, the person substantially profiting from this theory appears to have no training or understanding of neurology in general or MS in particular. Some of his "appliances" (just how much do they cost by the way? and what number is your wife on now?) may help problems that have nothing to do with MS and may even relieve some secondary symptoms, but they cannot do anything to actually treat MS.
Your attempt to take the focus off the main topic and onto Copaxone is very clumsy and, moreover, reveals your lack of understanding about pharmaceutical development. I can only assume that you are completely unaware that the mechanisms of a great many drugs widely used to day with great success are still not completely understood. It is old news!
I suggest you stick to the reason you came onto this forum - to promote and defend your mentor's dubious cure. The defence part is rather lacking though - are you going to answer the questions about calcification, demyelination, MRI, upper motor neuron, etc? Because if you aren't or can't, then I suggest that you give up and go home. The scaremongering and outrageous promotion of unproven treatments on this thread is adding to the stress of limboland for many of the regular users of this forum. And that is something that lies firmly at your and your colleague's door. Or maybe you only care about "an unselfish concern for the welfare of others" when you're on your own forum? Or maybe there's a bit missing from that strapline? Perhaps it should really say, "an unselfish concern for the welfare of others [who use my forum]"?
04 Dec 2012 at 10:30 pm
#106
I really seem to have stirred a hornet's nest here don't I.
If I was arriving at the MS Society Forum and MS was fully understood and fully treatable and I suggested an alternative treatment I'd completely understand all your reactions.
But that isn't the case is it. You have no idea what MS is or why it happens which makes you reactions even more astonishing.
My wife and I have chosen a different route from that being sold to all new "MS" sufferers, which in Emma's case is proving particularly positive. I'd go so far as to say she is recovering, not just having slowed relapses, but stopped them altogether and starting to get some form of life back to a degree where she is starting intensive rehabilitive physiotherapy.
The most sense I'm getting out of any poster in this thread is Maxwell, he at least has the freedom of thought to accept that what is being offered now through conventional medicine isn't anywhere near the answer that everyone is looking for, so why not look elsewhere?
What is so frightening about the suggestion that something other than drugs may help people diagnose with MS? Or infact that so little is really understood about MS that many people may be falsly diagnosed to begin with?
Why are you all wasting so much time and energy trying to discredit someone you've never met or spoken to in length when the question you should be asking is "I wonder if there is anything in it, why don't we take a look as everything we're doing now isn't the answer?"
Are medical professionals actually scared of having to face the possibility that their lifes work and understanding of MS has been spent entirely barking up the wrong tree? Self preservation is an incredibly strong motive not to change.
Why not embrace the idea that something may have been found that actually helps some of the cause of the problem rather than constantly treating a symptom.
Or do you all just want to continue shouting "Quack" at anyone that proffers any ideas that come shooting out of left field?
If I was arriving at the MS Society Forum and MS was fully understood and fully treatable and I suggested an alternative treatment I'd completely understand all your reactions.
But that isn't the case is it. You have no idea what MS is or why it happens which makes you reactions even more astonishing.
My wife and I have chosen a different route from that being sold to all new "MS" sufferers, which in Emma's case is proving particularly positive. I'd go so far as to say she is recovering, not just having slowed relapses, but stopped them altogether and starting to get some form of life back to a degree where she is starting intensive rehabilitive physiotherapy.
The most sense I'm getting out of any poster in this thread is Maxwell, he at least has the freedom of thought to accept that what is being offered now through conventional medicine isn't anywhere near the answer that everyone is looking for, so why not look elsewhere?
What is so frightening about the suggestion that something other than drugs may help people diagnose with MS? Or infact that so little is really understood about MS that many people may be falsly diagnosed to begin with?
Why are you all wasting so much time and energy trying to discredit someone you've never met or spoken to in length when the question you should be asking is "I wonder if there is anything in it, why don't we take a look as everything we're doing now isn't the answer?"
Are medical professionals actually scared of having to face the possibility that their lifes work and understanding of MS has been spent entirely barking up the wrong tree? Self preservation is an incredibly strong motive not to change.
Why not embrace the idea that something may have been found that actually helps some of the cause of the problem rather than constantly treating a symptom.
Or do you all just want to continue shouting "Quack" at anyone that proffers any ideas that come shooting out of left field?
04 Dec 2012 at 10:31 pm
#107
"It is difficult to imagine antidepressants taking away "burning, aching body pain" unless off course one is drugged up into a cabbage!" No, wrong again. At a low dose, antidepressants can provide remarkable relief from burning and aching body pain as well as other types of neuropathic pain.
Is this quoted verbatim? If so, any 'professional' writing 'off course' on their promotive site would of course put me off immediately!
It is indeed a direct, verbatim quote Deb. Here's the link: http://themsforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=22
And this is a man who EJC says understands neurology?!
04 Dec 2012 at 10:47 pm
#108
"Emma picked up a new appliance today... I was chatting with Emma on the way home about the appliances and we figured out this must be the 8th different type she's had in the last 11 months."
I wonder how much each "appliance" costs?
And what each appointment costs? (And how many of them Emma has had in 11 months?)
"Dr. Amir doesn't even know what he's doing with the next appliance until he gets there, the treatment is all very "organic". It's also why it's incredibly difficult to explain as a simple single process."
I wonder how long Emma going to be changing "appliances" for; how long this "process" is going to take?
"Depression has been Emma's biggest enemy recently, We'd been chatting with Dr. Amir a week ago when Emma had a few fixed items and one removable brace all taken out and given a "rest" for a week until today's new appliance was ready. The rest seems to have done her good as her mood has lifted and she's in an altogether better place mentally this week."
No comment.
I wonder how much each "appliance" costs?
And what each appointment costs? (And how many of them Emma has had in 11 months?)
"Dr. Amir doesn't even know what he's doing with the next appliance until he gets there, the treatment is all very "organic". It's also why it's incredibly difficult to explain as a simple single process."
I wonder how long Emma going to be changing "appliances" for; how long this "process" is going to take?
"Depression has been Emma's biggest enemy recently, We'd been chatting with Dr. Amir a week ago when Emma had a few fixed items and one removable brace all taken out and given a "rest" for a week until today's new appliance was ready. The rest seems to have done her good as her mood has lifted and she's in an altogether better place mentally this week."
No comment.
04 Dec 2012 at 10:52 pm
#109
"we figured out this must be the 8th different type she's had in the last 11 months."
"Dr. Amir doesn't even know what he's doing with the next appliance until he gets there, the treatment is all very "organic".
"Emma had a few fixed items and one removable brace all taken out and given a "rest" for a week until today's new appliance was ready. The rest seems to have done her good as her mood has lifted and she's in an altogether better place mentally this week."
I'm dumbfounded!
'Dr' Amir saw EJC coming. There is no science in this at all and here it is in his own words yet he keeps digging into his pockets....... FGS
04 Dec 2012 at 11:08 pm
#110
I really seem to have stirred a hornet's nest here don't I.
If I was arriving at the MS Society Forum and MS was fully understood and fully treatable and I suggested an alternative treatment I'd completely understand all your reactions.
But that isn't the case is it. You have no idea what MS is or why it happens which makes you reactions even more astonishing.
My wife and I have chosen a different route from that being sold to all new "MS" sufferers, which in Emma's case is proving particularly positive. I'd go so far as to say she is recovering, not just having slowed relapses, but stopped them altogether and starting to get some form of life back to a degree where she is starting intensive rehabilitive physiotherapy.
The most sense I'm getting out of any poster in this thread is Maxwell, he at least has the freedom of thought to accept that what is being offered now through conventional medicine isn't anywhere near the answer that everyone is looking for, so why not look elsewhere?
What is so frightening about the suggestion that something other than drugs may help people diagnose with MS? Or infact that so little is really understood about MS that many people may be falsly diagnosed to begin with?
Why are you all wasting so much time and energy trying to discredit someone you've never met or spoken to in length when the question you should be asking is "I wonder if there is anything in it, why don't we take a look as everything we're doing now isn't the answer?"
Are medical professionals actually scared of having to face the possibility that their lifes work and understanding of MS has been spent entirely barking up the wrong tree? Self preservation is an incredibly strong motive not to change.
Why not embrace the idea that something may have been found that actually helps some of the cause of the problem rather than constantly treating a symptom.
Or do you all just want to continue shouting "Quack" at anyone that proffers any ideas that come shooting out of left field?
Laughing at myself for a momet as I can't seem to keep away!
But EJC your last comments struck a chord with me.
It reminded me of an unfolding situation here in Australia concerning one Dr Ian Gawler and involves alternative therapies for cancer treatment.
No one knows definitively what causes the various forms of cancers either. There are excellent theories and it is pretty well agreed now that it is to do with cell aging and proliferation but as to WHY this occurs is still hotly debated. Advice on cancer prevention changes constantly. One moment people are advised to have regular prostrate checks and the next told that this could actually exacerbate prostrate cancer. That avoiding fried food is essential and then that it makes no difference. Eat red meat, don’t eat red meat…. The jury is still out on the causative factors in many cases.
The recognised treatments of surgery, radiotherapy and chemotherapy are always improving but are still pretty blunt instruments and again (apart from surgery) are still debated as to their mechanisms. But they do work, in many cases. Not always. Sounds a bit like MS in some regards.
Anyway back to Ian Gawler. He was diagnosed with cancer back in the 1970s and then with secondary cancer and he turned his back on chemo etc and followed a diet of his own making and did a lot of meditation and lo and behold he didn’t die. Against all the odds. And he is still alive 40 years later.
He promoted his diet and meditation techniques and set up very expensive retreats that became incredibly successful and many people refused “standard” treatment in favour of the Gawler therapy. Many died. He published many books and became a full on industry.
Now 40 years on his medical papers have come to light and it appears his secondary cancer was never cancer at all but TB which was successful treated at the time 40 years ago with antibiotics. Charlatan? One could say so.
And yet for many years here in Australia the name Ian Gawler was synonymous with Saint.
Mainstream medicine does not always need to know exactly why a disease occurs or how a treatment works to make treating it successful. But alternative theories can be based on fraud and be dangerously misleading to the public.
Be very careful what you are encouraging people to take up EJC.
Right and now I am done.
Belinda
04 Dec 2012 at 11:15 pm
#111
"Emma picked up a new appliance today... I was chatting with Emma on the way home about the appliances and we figured out this must be the 8th different type she's had in the last 11 months."
I wonder how much each "appliance" costs?
And what each appointment costs? (And how many of them Emma has had in 11 months?)
"Dr. Amir doesn't even know what he's doing with the next appliance until he gets there, the treatment is all very "organic". It's also why it's incredibly difficult to explain as a simple single process."
I wonder how long Emma going to be changing "appliances" for; how long this "process" is going to take?
"Depression has been Emma's biggest enemy recently, We'd been chatting with Dr. Amir a week ago when Emma had a few fixed items and one removable brace all taken out and given a "rest" for a week until today's new appliance was ready. The rest seems to have done her good as her mood has lifted and she's in an altogether better place mentally this week."
No comment.
I wondered when someone would bring up this little question.
Why not ask Dr Amir what is all costs rizzo rather than speculate?
It's not charged by appointment or by applicance, it a flat rate no matter how much treatment is required, paid monthly in arrears so if the treatment doesn't have any benefitial impact you can walk away without a big hole in your pocket, whenever you want.
How many other private medical practices offer that rizzo?
In fact Dr Amir refuses to take payment in full up front.
In Emma's case the treatment may take two to three years - again it's the same set fee.
04 Dec 2012 at 11:19 pm
#112
I have read both the link supplied by EJC and the attached paper and rolled around laughing.
I am pleased this paper brought you so mmuch laughter. The patients who subsequently got cured by the physical interventions of Dr Rosa are also hopefully laughing as much as you are.
It read as one massive sales pitch for a very odd MRI machine which as far as I can see from numerous google searches has been bought by NO reputable hospitals or research facilities. All this machine and its associated advertising pitch appears to be doing is to try and cash in on the CCSVI market which is rapidly becoming a fizzler anyway.
As far as a rigourous scientific study goes this fails on just about every parameter.
1) The sample size is too small. 8 particiapnts? 8?????? Statistcally irrelevant.
2) Where is the control group? Without studying people without MS the whole study is totaly pointless. This so called phenomena may be totally physiologically normal.
3) And in the absence of a control group double blif=ding was impossible therefore the MRI tecnicians running the study knew that each person being studied had MS and therefore the interpretations were left open to bias.
And that destrys any validity of the results without een having to know anything about MS, MRIs or having any specialist knowledge.
If this study had really made such ground breaking studies as you sem to think it does EJC don't you think it would have made head line news i the MS comunity by now? Or are e gooing to enter into a wholediscussion on Big Paharma supresing any data that doesn't support and mediation based treatment method for MS?
Look, EJC, I am glad that your wife is feeling better for what ever reason, but please stop trying to convince people of half baked loony theories that simpy do not hold water on the slightest bit of considered thought. You are working on ideas from the lunatic fringe andwhile that may be your perogative, it is not your right to tell every body that the accepted body of science is completely wrong and that only a handful of self serving quacks have got it right.
Belinda
Your words "You are working on ideas from the lunatic fringe" Which lunatic are you talking about. Is it Dr Damadian, Dr Rosa or Dr Amir? So you think that we are so gullible that the overpowering Dr Amir has intoxicated us and we would be better off listening to you from down under.I am pleased this paper brought you so mmuch laughter. The patients who subsequently got cured by the physical interventions of Dr Rosa are also hopefully laughing as much as you are.
It read as one massive sales pitch for a very odd MRI machine which as far as I can see from numerous google searches has been bought by NO reputable hospitals or research facilities. All this machine and its associated advertising pitch appears to be doing is to try and cash in on the CCSVI market which is rapidly becoming a fizzler anyway.
As far as a rigourous scientific study goes this fails on just about every parameter.
1) The sample size is too small. 8 particiapnts? 8?????? Statistcally irrelevant.
2) Where is the control group? Without studying people without MS the whole study is totaly pointless. This so called phenomena may be totally physiologically normal.
3) And in the absence of a control group double blif=ding was impossible therefore the MRI tecnicians running the study knew that each person being studied had MS and therefore the interpretations were left open to bias.
And that destrys any validity of the results without een having to know anything about MS, MRIs or having any specialist knowledge.
If this study had really made such ground breaking studies as you sem to think it does EJC don't you think it would have made head line news i the MS comunity by now? Or are e gooing to enter into a wholediscussion on Big Paharma supresing any data that doesn't support and mediation based treatment method for MS?
Look, EJC, I am glad that your wife is feeling better for what ever reason, but please stop trying to convince people of half baked loony theories that simpy do not hold water on the slightest bit of considered thought. You are working on ideas from the lunatic fringe andwhile that may be your perogative, it is not your right to tell every body that the accepted body of science is completely wrong and that only a handful of self serving quacks have got it right.
Belinda
As per the words of Dr Amir "Being intoxicated by scientific fact does not make science right. There is more death from drug adverse effects over time than perhaps the cure they provide. One estimate puts the death toll from these scientifically proven drugs at 1 million per year in just one country. Every third patient in a hospital bed is there as a direct consequence of these scientifically evaluated drugs in the same country. The highest complaints about adverse drug events reported to the FDA since 2004 were caused by the DMD's that you are so intoxicated with."
Following scientific protocol which now has a stranglehold of big pharma has not sorted many illnesses out. We have this forum precisely for this reason. The lunacy that you complain about is the saving grace for many of us. Thankfully you are not our carer. I can just imagine what you would be pushing down my wife's throat.
04 Dec 2012 at 11:20 pm
#113
Which is?
Btw, you haven't answered my earlier questions or comments. Are you going to? Can you?
Btw, you haven't answered my earlier questions or comments. Are you going to? Can you?
04 Dec 2012 at 11:57 pm
#114
Which is?
Btw, you haven't answered my earlier questions or comments. Are you going to? Can you?
Less than my last 10 days holiday abroad and available in detail with a discussion with Dr Amir.
Which earlier questions specifically require my attention?
05 Dec 2012 at 12:03 am
#115
"we figured out this must be the 8th different type she's had in the last 11 months."
"Dr. Amir doesn't even know what he's doing with the next appliance until he gets there, the treatment is all very "organic".
"Emma had a few fixed items and one removable brace all taken out and given a "rest" for a week until today's new appliance was ready. The rest seems to have done her good as her mood has lifted and she's in an altogether better place mentally this week."
I'm dumbfounded!
'Dr' Amir saw EJC coming. There is no science in this at all and here it is in his own words yet he keeps digging into his pockets....... FGS
So debs, I'm dumbfounded you seem to know how much I've spent? Have you been hacking my online bank details to find out?
See the answer to rizzo's question about costs above.
If you'd like a breakdown specifically Dr Amir is available, all you need to do is ask.
It's one thing posting details of my wife's treatment on here, but then posting the costs I can see the next stage of your barage of collective abuse being that I'm only here as a shill to advertise on Dr Amir's behalf.
Put it this way, I've spent more on regular traditional dentistry than this is costing (in fact my last 10 day holiday cost more than this entire treatment) . If you want details Dr Amir will only be too willing to discuss them with anyone genuinely interested in his treatment.
05 Dec 2012 at 12:30 am
#116
"Which earlier questions specifically require my attention?"
Scroll up, read my posts, note which points you have not responded to (most of them), answer them (if you can).
Scroll up, read my posts, note which points you have not responded to (most of them), answer them (if you can).
05 Dec 2012 at 8:48 am
#117
"Later, (8 years)when I got my diagnosis, I was in a mess again, with permanent knee damage, due to lack of nerve conductivity and I couldn't lie flat, so my husband had to keep putting my hip 'back' so that I could lie down for the MRI.
Oh no! Not physical treatment which was helping you! Was it?"
EJC . I was ill for 8 years with odd, life-threatening symptoms. No one did any more testing for my BP problems, just more drugs. In the end I was tested for pheochromocytoma. I may have it, but the tumour that causes the BP problems is hard to find. So that was life. I got on with life. If I had spasms, I dealt with them. No doctors were interested and I didn't expect them to be. Self-help is just as important as medical help with non-fatal symptoms such as spasms.
So, 8 years later, I suddenly developed double vision and went to see my GP who sent me to the best hospital in Singapore. The radiologist was from the UK and recognised the MS lesions, pulled me out of the scanner and injected gadolinium.
I was very, very ill after my diagnosis.
For you to make light of my illness and symptoms is disgusting and reprehensible. Instead of jumping on your wife's problems,
I agreed that help such as chiropractic treatment and massage must have helped her as it did me. Like Maxwell, I looked at alternatives -LDN, diet. How DARE you make fun of my disease.
You are a trolling shill. Rude and aggressive and like so many other people who think that they have the answer to their loved one's illness, you disregard every answer because it doesn't fit in with argument.
I was lucky. Rebif has worked well. I still have MS and I still have odd relapses which completely **** up my life.
Now get lost. You don't have MS. You don't suffer from MS symptoms and you aren't helping anyone here.
Again. How dare you make fun of my MS. I am upset, appalled and disgusted. Great start to the day. Thanks. No wonder my distress will make you laugh. Again and again HOW DARE YOU!
05 Dec 2012 at 8:52 am
#118
EJC - oh how much you must be enjoying this. I'm sitting here in tears. You are a horrible, horrible person.
05 Dec 2012 at 9:29 am
#119
I agree this is an, um, spirited discussion.
Yet occasionally we get someone who has a point to make, an agenda, and is going to make it come hell or high water. It is no bad thing to discuss and share. However, to say that another forum member wishes more troubles and disability on someone in the course of discussion is unbelievable and in this case, inaccurate.
"luckily her future is going to be much brighter than you wish upon her"
Never. You have gotten it so very, very wrong.
Everyone on this forum struggles with symptoms and many with very challenging disability/disabilities. For the most part we all get on and support one another. Its best if we all remember that.
S.
Yet occasionally we get someone who has a point to make, an agenda, and is going to make it come hell or high water. It is no bad thing to discuss and share. However, to say that another forum member wishes more troubles and disability on someone in the course of discussion is unbelievable and in this case, inaccurate.
"luckily her future is going to be much brighter than you wish upon her"
Never. You have gotten it so very, very wrong.
Everyone on this forum struggles with symptoms and many with very challenging disability/disabilities. For the most part we all get on and support one another. Its best if we all remember that.
S.
05 Dec 2012 at 9:35 am
#120
"Which earlier questions specifically require my attention?"
Scroll up, read my posts, note which points you have not responded to (most of them), answer them (if you can).
"He has a better understanding from a neurological point of view"
Than whom?!
YOU OFF COURSE!
Here are a few absolute crackers from your own website, posted by the man himself.
My crackers are in red.
"The neuralgic facial pain is always caused by TMJ dysfunction." Utter rubbish. Trigeminal neuralgia (TN) is inflammation of the trigeminal nerve. The trigeminal nerve runs from the brain stem to the head/face. A lesion anywhere along that nerve can cause TN. Of course TMJ can cause TN, but always? Categorically not.
How many TN cases have you successfully treated? How many TN cases has anyone treated without the use of drugs which have very serious adverse effects? How many have been treated with other potions or means? You have zilch idea of the subject nor has anyone else who has never successfully treated TN. It transpires that appliance therapy and the correction of the Atlas takes TN pain away. He has successfully done this. I am reliably informed that a patient has just flown over from Australia who is starting TN treatment in a week or so and she will then be posting on the forum. Please do not repeat the nonsense hogwash you conventionally find about TN. You seem to know the neuro anatomy of the Trigeminal nerve more than someone who successfully handles TN pain without dissecting this nerve.
"It is difficult to imagine antidepressants taking away "burning, aching body pain" unless off course one is drugged up into a cabbage!" No, wrong again. At a low dose, antidepressants can provide remarkable relief from burning and aching body pain as well as other types of neuropathic pain.
He does not need anti depressants to clear "burning, aching body pain" as clearly demonstrated amongst many of his patients. You must however keep taking them. Please do not let me advise you otherwise. By the way which pharmaceutical do you represent here?
He gives us this cure for L'Hermitte's sign, not seeming to realise that the most common cause of L'Hermitte's sign in MS is a lesion of the spinal cord: "L’hermitte sign: Atlas and appliance treatment to correct cervical spine"
This is where the contention is. Jen's L'hermitte of 22 year standing disappeared in a couple of months after starting symmetry treatment with Dr Amir. See her forum postings. What does that say about your belief that it is from a central lesion. The PROOF IS THAT IT CANNOT BE A CENTRAL LESION IF IT RESOLVES IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS.
Did you bother checking with Jen? No you just want to let everyone know about your stupidity.
And treatment for chronic pins & needles?: "again symmetry treatment through appliances - not anticonvulsants and antidepressants!" The exclamation mark says it all really. Why would it be there unless the author had no understanding of the cause of the pins & needles and the mechanism by which meds relieve this?
You mean that a professional man will make such a statement without having cocrete evidence of it. This he treats successfully day in and day out. It is you who only has the experience of a computer keyboard trying to persuade us that drugs do the job - not symmetry treatment. An intelligent person would say - off course a symmetrical body is going to operate the best. Even horse racing community are looking for symmetry in their horses to get the best results. You would want to drug the horses!
"Muscle spasms and cramps: How will anti-inflammatories remove the cause? The use of anti infllammatories masks the underlying cause allowing the damage to get worse." Anti-inflammatories are not used in the treatment of MS-induced muscle spasms and cramps. This is for one very good reason: spasms and cramps (and associated spasticity) are caused by a problem with the upper motor neuron. (I wonder if the author of the quotes knows what that means?)
And if those examples weren't bad enough, here we have something that beggars belief:
Where does this "MS induced" come from? Dr Amir is repeatedly demonstrating that it appears not to be so. You want to stamp on his head rather than trying to find a simple solution for a serious and according to you an "incurable illness".
"Back and Skeleton pain: This needs urgent Atlas correction and appliance therapy before it gets worse and patients start having difficulty walking." The author is suggesting that the source of mobility problems is back and skeleton pain. There is no reference to spasticity or upper motor neuron problems. There is no mention of ataxia. There is no mention of foot drop. There is no mention of motor fatigue. There is no mention of, well, of anything neurological!
Wrong again. Your knowledge about getting relef with symmetry treatment is non existent. You continue to repeat the mantra which needs serious review in view of Dr Amir's findings. So please keep this ancient out of date hogwash with yourself.
Just about the only original thing that is true on the post these quotes come from is the bit at the end:
"Disclaimer : The content of this site does not represent a qualified medical opinion. You should always seek the advice of your medical practitioner or neurologist before trying any treatment you may read about on this site."
I think this is a usual disclaimer which is required. It does not mean he has any belief in it. If this gives you respite than I am very happy for you and you must continue to contribute the sheep like knowledge that you have just demonstrtaed in your postings. I find it most hilarious and would like to have fun when "educating" myself by the likes of you.
HEAR HEAR!
Than whom?!
YOU OFF COURSE!
Here are a few absolute crackers from your own website, posted by the man himself.
My crackers are in red.
"The neuralgic facial pain is always caused by TMJ dysfunction." Utter rubbish. Trigeminal neuralgia (TN) is inflammation of the trigeminal nerve. The trigeminal nerve runs from the brain stem to the head/face. A lesion anywhere along that nerve can cause TN. Of course TMJ can cause TN, but always? Categorically not.
How many TN cases have you successfully treated? How many TN cases has anyone treated without the use of drugs which have very serious adverse effects? How many have been treated with other potions or means? You have zilch idea of the subject nor has anyone else who has never successfully treated TN. It transpires that appliance therapy and the correction of the Atlas takes TN pain away. He has successfully done this. I am reliably informed that a patient has just flown over from Australia who is starting TN treatment in a week or so and she will then be posting on the forum. Please do not repeat the nonsense hogwash you conventionally find about TN. You seem to know the neuro anatomy of the Trigeminal nerve more than someone who successfully handles TN pain without dissecting this nerve.
"It is difficult to imagine antidepressants taking away "burning, aching body pain" unless off course one is drugged up into a cabbage!" No, wrong again. At a low dose, antidepressants can provide remarkable relief from burning and aching body pain as well as other types of neuropathic pain.
He does not need anti depressants to clear "burning, aching body pain" as clearly demonstrated amongst many of his patients. You must however keep taking them. Please do not let me advise you otherwise. By the way which pharmaceutical do you represent here?
He gives us this cure for L'Hermitte's sign, not seeming to realise that the most common cause of L'Hermitte's sign in MS is a lesion of the spinal cord: "L’hermitte sign: Atlas and appliance treatment to correct cervical spine"
This is where the contention is. Jen's L'hermitte of 22 year standing disappeared in a couple of months after starting symmetry treatment with Dr Amir. See her forum postings. What does that say about your belief that it is from a central lesion. The PROOF IS THAT IT CANNOT BE A CENTRAL LESION IF IT RESOLVES IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS.
Did you bother checking with Jen? No you just want to let everyone know about your stupidity.
And treatment for chronic pins & needles?: "again symmetry treatment through appliances - not anticonvulsants and antidepressants!" The exclamation mark says it all really. Why would it be there unless the author had no understanding of the cause of the pins & needles and the mechanism by which meds relieve this?
You mean that a professional man will make such a statement without having cocrete evidence of it. This he treats successfully day in and day out. It is you who only has the experience of a computer keyboard trying to persuade us that drugs do the job - not symmetry treatment. An intelligent person would say - off course a symmetrical body is going to operate the best. Even horse racing community are looking for symmetry in their horses to get the best results. You would want to drug the horses!
"Muscle spasms and cramps: How will anti-inflammatories remove the cause? The use of anti infllammatories masks the underlying cause allowing the damage to get worse." Anti-inflammatories are not used in the treatment of MS-induced muscle spasms and cramps. This is for one very good reason: spasms and cramps (and associated spasticity) are caused by a problem with the upper motor neuron. (I wonder if the author of the quotes knows what that means?)
And if those examples weren't bad enough, here we have something that beggars belief:
Where does this "MS induced" come from? Dr Amir is repeatedly demonstrating that it appears not to be so. You want to stamp on his head rather than trying to find a simple solution for a serious and according to you an "incurable illness".
"Back and Skeleton pain: This needs urgent Atlas correction and appliance therapy before it gets worse and patients start having difficulty walking." The author is suggesting that the source of mobility problems is back and skeleton pain. There is no reference to spasticity or upper motor neuron problems. There is no mention of ataxia. There is no mention of foot drop. There is no mention of motor fatigue. There is no mention of, well, of anything neurological!
Wrong again. Your knowledge about getting relef with symmetry treatment is non existent. You continue to repeat the mantra which needs serious review in view of Dr Amir's findings. So please keep this ancient out of date hogwash with yourself.
Just about the only original thing that is true on the post these quotes come from is the bit at the end:
"Disclaimer : The content of this site does not represent a qualified medical opinion. You should always seek the advice of your medical practitioner or neurologist before trying any treatment you may read about on this site."
I think this is a usual disclaimer which is required. It does not mean he has any belief in it. If this gives you respite than I am very happy for you and you must continue to contribute the sheep like knowledge that you have just demonstrtaed in your postings. I find it most hilarious and would like to have fun when "educating" myself by the likes of you.
HEAR HEAR!
05 Dec 2012 at 9:36 am
#121
I agree this is an, um, spirited discussion.
Yet occasionally we get someone who has a point to make, an agenda, and is going to make it come hell or high water. It is no bad thing to discuss and share. However, to say that another forum member wishes more troubles and disability on someone in the course of discussion is unbelievable and in this case, inaccurate.
"luckily her future is going to be much brighter than you wish upon her"
Never. You have gotten it so very, very wrong.
Everyone on this forum struggles with symptoms and many with very challenging disability/disabilities. For the most part we all get on and support one another. Its best if we all remember that.
S.
I was pretty annoyed by the suggestion also hence my response.
05 Dec 2012 at 9:43 am
#122
EJC
You have gotten it wrong, not the other poster. But, I think you already know that.
S.
You have gotten it wrong, not the other poster. But, I think you already know that.
S.
05 Dec 2012 at 9:48 am
#123
EHC, I am disgusted by the lack of compassion you reveal by your choice to offend me rather than apologise to lapreguiceira who you have terribly upset. Shame on you.
05 Dec 2012 at 9:54 am
#124
Where is your apology to lapreguiceira?
05 Dec 2012 at 9:56 am
#125 Where is your apology to lapreguiceira?
It will follow your apology to Jen
05 Dec 2012 at 10:00 am
#126
Why would I apologise for anything I wrote in any reply to your friend? I stuck to the truth and I did not belittle a life threatening illness and bring someone to tears as a result.
05 Dec 2012 at 10:05 am
#127
Yes, we'll done EJC, I warned you pages ago, on this thread, that you were running a very real risk of inflicting psychological harm on someone and now you've done it. I cannot believe how far you have gone in your utter, single minded determination to attemp to discredit the good that happens on this site and can only begin to wonder what you hoped to gain from your indoctrination. Obviously failing to do so is making you increasingly rude and angry.
05 Dec 2012 at 10:16 am
#128 Why would I apologise for anything I wrote in any reply to your friend? I stuck to the truth and I did not belittle a life threatening illness and bring someone to tears as a result.
Touche
05 Dec 2012 at 10:17 am
#129
Right, that is ENOUGH I have tried really really hard not be offensive because i didnt want to get in trouble with the moderator but you have upset a fellow society member now and I am pissed and you and your cronies need to do one, seriously. No one needs to apologise accept you. You have come up against it here, but you won't admit it will you? No...... Never wrong people like you are you? I m undiagnosed and there is only one person I am putting my life under their trust and that is my Neurologist. Please leave me and the other members on here to do the same. And yes we are a community, I care about people on here and I hope they feel the same. They got me through my MRI and now you come on here and abuse them. I am married and I find it incredibly creepy that you are speaking for your wife, does she even exist? You sound controlling, well it hasn't worked here and it doesn't matter how much time you spend it won't work, we are intelligent people on here you see. I urge the Moderator to step in before other members get upset, which was me the other night, my husband had to calm me down. I am in an awful place waiting at the moment and that fear has manifested into people like you. I am training to be a Psychotherapist and from the moment I saw the thread title I knew it would spell trouble but I am flabbergasted at how bad it has got. This is very troubling now and I am concerned at the welfare of members and the effects on our health. A healthy discussion this is NOT, time to put the Troll back under the bridge.
05 Dec 2012 at 10:21 am
#130
There is an inevitability about this thread, I'm actually surprised it's stayed here this long, I know the moderators have already looked at at as I've reported several posts as personal attacks.
So before it's removed, which I have no doubt it will be eventually.
How about we get some answer to the reasonable and valid questions I posted above directed at rizzo?
What I'd really like to know is why it's acceptable for her to post that copaxone appears to do nothing but if I say the same, well, just read back through this thread.
So before it's removed, which I have no doubt it will be eventually.
How about we get some answer to the reasonable and valid questions I posted above directed at rizzo?
What I'd really like to know is why it's acceptable for her to post that copaxone appears to do nothing but if I say the same, well, just read back through this thread.
05 Dec 2012 at 10:26 am
#131
The only personally attack I see, is one that has left someone who YOU, EJC attacked, in public, on this thread and reduced to tears. I would imagine you are very proud of yourself. If not, stop and think about what you are inflicting on people. And yes, I am angry, dammed angry that you made someone cry.
05 Dec 2012 at 10:31 am
#132
Not only did I not say that Copaxone does nothing, you are unbelievably out of order in claiming that you have done nothing wrong here. You do your mentor no favours whatsoever. Sam, I agree with you absolutely.
05 Dec 2012 at 10:49 am
#133 EJC, you have done enough damage. Can you not see that you will not convince any of us of your theories no matter how much you abuse people and denigrate them?
Now apologise to lapreguiceira and then leave. You don't have MS, you have no concept of what we deal with on a daily basis and you are not welcome here.
Your arguments are becoming repetitive and increasingly abusive. You have attempted to make your point and have failed. Admit defeat and go away.
Belinda
05 Dec 2012 at 11:05 am
#134
don't you think this is getting out of hand and turning into a slanging match ? If so many people here think that EJC is completely out of order then for goodness sake have some restraint and dont stoop to his level.
I am new to MS and this site and and the tone of some of the posters I find really agressive so I am wondering if this is really the right forum for me.
Everyone is going to have differing opinions so can we call it a day and move on to something more constructive?
I am new to MS and this site and and the tone of some of the posters I find really agressive so I am wondering if this is really the right forum for me.
Everyone is going to have differing opinions so can we call it a day and move on to something more constructive?
05 Dec 2012 at 11:24 am
#135 
Read through this thread carefully, and you will notice:
A quote taken directly from "Dr" Amir using the phrase "off course"
A posting from EJC, using the phrase "off course"
How many of EJC,s postings were actually written by "Dr" Amir?
Look at a number of the questions that EJC asked:
What does Copaxone consist of? So I answered that and the next question was:
How does it work? And a bit later on:
How does Rebif work?
Who really wants to know - EJC or "Dr" Amir?
If EJC really wants to do some study for himself, he could do no better than study the works of Leon Festinger - starting with "When Prophecy Fails". No, I am not suggesting that he is a reincarnation of Dorothy Martin, but he should consider the behaviour of some of her fanatical followers.
What has not been answered here:
How is "Dr" Amir able to style himself "Doctor" - (a title adopted by so many snake oil salemen in the past) when his published qualifications do not indicate that this is appropriate?
Karen (rizzo) holds a Doctoral degree, and is thus entitled to style herself Doctor.
I hold a Doctoral degree, and am thus entitled to style myself Doctor.
I have no doubt that several other members are equally well qualified.
But, "Dr" Amir? Who, it would appear has, not got it right after making several of his appliances.
Geoff
A quote taken directly from "Dr" Amir using the phrase "off course"
A posting from EJC, using the phrase "off course"
How many of EJC,s postings were actually written by "Dr" Amir?
Look at a number of the questions that EJC asked:
What does Copaxone consist of? So I answered that and the next question was:
How does it work? And a bit later on:
How does Rebif work?
Who really wants to know - EJC or "Dr" Amir?
If EJC really wants to do some study for himself, he could do no better than study the works of Leon Festinger - starting with "When Prophecy Fails". No, I am not suggesting that he is a reincarnation of Dorothy Martin, but he should consider the behaviour of some of her fanatical followers.
What has not been answered here:
How is "Dr" Amir able to style himself "Doctor" - (a title adopted by so many snake oil salemen in the past) when his published qualifications do not indicate that this is appropriate?
Karen (rizzo) holds a Doctoral degree, and is thus entitled to style herself Doctor.
I hold a Doctoral degree, and am thus entitled to style myself Doctor.
I have no doubt that several other members are equally well qualified.
But, "Dr" Amir? Who, it would appear has, not got it right after making several of his appliances.
Geoff
05 Dec 2012 at 11:31 am
#136
EJC, I can assure you that your posting has been reported to the mods for seriously upsetting a long-term and well-liked member. It seems that you want the last word in this and will not let it you. If you are who you say you are, think about the fact that you are causing distress to chronically I'll people. You are well and this just comes across as bullying. Shame on you. Stop it now! Teresa
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