Symptoms and Signs of Atlas Subluxation
Edited Feb 14 2013
Symptoms
Please be aware that the following list is a list of all possible complications and their anatomical and physiological basis and that few people with this condition will have a full hand of symptoms.However, a proper understanding of anatomy and physiology of the upper cervical area and brainstem should be enough to make it clear that all of the symptoms listed below are predictable given a large enough subluxation.
The joint between the skull and the neck is designed for nodding movements, and it has been documented that the maximum rotation expected on turning well to the left or right is about 3-4 degrees.
The worst case I have seen was a rotatory subluxation of about 25 degrees demonstrated on a CT upper cervical spine. I was dismayed that the radiologist who reported it failed to note the abnormality. I would observe that this probably happened because such subluxations are not regarded as possible within allopathic medicine- and he was not looking for it. I did get the satisfaction of an amended report after conversation with the radiologist involved.
Most symptoms will be intermittent, and at least partially resolve when the patient is fit and active, so there will be great variability between patients. I have had experience with most of these symptoms being relieved in patients I have seen.
Physical and radiological examination will provide clear cut evidence of the existence of the condition.
Mechanical Symptoms
- Headaches- often involving the base of the skull, and referring to the sides of the head and around the sinuses.
- Migraines, often with marked agitation and nausea.
- Neck pains and stiffness and difficulty finding a comfortable position on the pillow at night.
- Sometimes crackling or grating noises at the base of the skull when turning the head. Often there are associated shoulder pains, especially between the shoulder blades.
- Jaw joint pains or dysfunction. Clicking jaw.
- Chest wall pain- due to the distortion of the ribcage
- Low back pain and/or disc injuries due to abnormal posture.
- Nerve root irritations at any level.
- Pains or injuries in one hip, knee or ankle, often repeated injuries to one side of the body.
- Patients may be told they have one leg shorter than the other.
Vagus nerve: Nausea, heartburn, irritable bowel, constipation, vasovagal (fainting/near fainting) episodes, probably infantile colic. Cough and voice problems
Internal Jugular Vein and venous drainage of the skull via the foramen magnum: tiredness, mental fogginess (often subtle and this may well contribute to the mental fogginess in ADHD, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia and depression). References:
http://www.upright-health.com/
http://www.upright-health.com/vertebral-veins.html
http://www.upright-health.com/brain-cooling.html
It is of interest that current research into multiple sclerosis has raised the possibility of venous congestion of the brain having a causative role in that condition.
Dizziness- often subtle and hard to describe, and mild incoordination /clumsiness.
Note that these symptoms are likely to be related to disturbed inputs to the Vestibular/proprioceptive (balance) system caused by nerve impingements, and excess tension in some muscles and on some joints. It is likely that the actual atlas subluxation causes some brainstem injury at the time of the injury.
Tingling or burning fingers or toes- usually migratory and intermittent.
Sympathetic Nervous System:
There are multiple reasons to believe that atlas subluxations may cause sympathetic overactivation (stress response): Poor balance itself is a cause of sympathetic overactivation, also the traction on the brain stem caused by the typical head forward posture of most people with the injury activates a stress response, and there may be further impacts on sympathetic ganglia (nerve cell clusters) that lie close to the spine along the whole length of the spine.
Symptoms would include chronic anxiety and impulsiveness, fine tremor, raised heart rate
It is arguable that chronic sympathetic overactivationmay be lead to:
a)gut problems due to chronic diversion of blood flow away from the gut into the muscles which may well be contributory to peptic ulcers, food allergies ( via increased gut permeability)
b) Adrenal gland activation and chronic over production of cortisone as an expected consequence of chronic sympathetic (stress) response. Adrenal fatigue as a downstream consequence of this.
c) unstable attention- as the body is effectively being given a warning to loo for threat in the environment.
It is arguable that chronic sympathetic activation might be contributory to immune suppression, hypertension, diabetes, osteoporosis, disturbed sleep and depression.
Disturbed sleep:
This is a common complication in our experience and may be contributed to by neck discomfort at night, by sympathetic over-activation, or by a number of brain stem effects caused by alteration in balance inputs into the nervous system.. In a number of patients the neck discomfort has triggered tooth grinding which has improved after treatment.
Signs
The physical signs of atlanto- occipital subluxation are straightforward, and the diagnosis can usually be confirmed without investigations.
Posture- the head is carried forwards of the shoulders. ( In healthy posture the centre of the shoulder joint is vertically directly below the ear canals).The patient may also have a degree of hunch or a sway back.
The patient will have great difficulty straightening up to hold his head in correct position.
The front on view will often clearly indicate the problem. The head may be tilted to one side, and the neck rotated a few degrees or so off straight ahead.
The midline of the trunk may not be vertical.
One shoulder will be higher than the other.
Often the pelvis will visibly be off level as well (Usually high on the side of the low shoulder).
From the back the difference in the level of the shoulders will be more apparent, and one shoulder should be pushed out to the back. The head, shoulders, and hips may be out of alignment (viewed from above).
The neck will almost always be tender just below the ears and behind the jaw. It may be possible to feel that the neck bone is closer to the jaw on one side than the other. Postural issues, muscle spasm, or a “bull neck” can make this sign difficult to identify. However the joint between the atlas and the skull is not one at which rotation naturally occurs (beyond about 3-4 degrees at the extremes of neck rotation) so this sign is always abnormal if found.
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The spasm is involuntary muscle guarding as the muscles brace to protect the cervical spinal cord from injury.
I have been working with a chiropractor who specialises in functional neurology for some years now, and am well aware that I have had longstanding deficits of body awareness especially in the right upper quadrant. These were easily demonstrated on the more sophisticated chiropractic neurological examination that was done on me. (Us doctors have a LOT to learn).
However- due to a combination of QiGong, and some rhythm related meditation with great emphasis on balance and exact awareness of foot placement I actually tuned off the neck spasm and pain about 3 weeks ago. This is quite a remarkable result- and I now understand that the basic problem was one of my brain receiving mismatching sets of visual, proprioceptive, tactile and vestibular information– and getting very overloaded.
The other nice aspect of this is that it has completely turned off the last of my ADHD symptoms- and it happened virtually in an instant. I am now looking at a way of simplifying and operatonalising these findings to make them more widely applicable.
Which doctor did you see at kempsville? Looks like a great place. Thank you. Anja
Will your chiro adjust your C1? Not all will do this.
Good luck.
Ljdebernardi@gmail.com
LIL
Other options are to be found through the “NUCCA” website and also any practitioner of Sacro-occipital technique should be able to remedy the problem without excessive force.
I am fortunate to see one in my locale, Bloomington Minnesota. David Philips is his name.
“…..we seal ourselves in within a linguistic shell of dis-empowered perception.” ~Terrance McKenna
I had already diagnosed this in myself. I backed into the diagnosis in a roundabout way, but the day I cradled my head in my hands pressing in with my thumbsjust below and behind the ears did I feel the misalignment of the atlas (the left side did not feel like the right side). I could feel a slight bony-like projection on my left side, but for the life of me no matter how much I searched find any such structure on the right side (no matter how deep I explored with my thumb). Therefore, I pressed extremely hard on the left side trying to force the bone to the right back into place. I used a hard plastic case, using the heal of my left hand to push against it while bracing the neck on the right with my right hand. I had some success but the bone would always float back to the left. Finally this morning while lying in bed I once again used the plastic case, but this time positioned it very tightly and immediately below the mastoid process on the left side. I positioned my right palm over the mastoid on the right. Pushing with the left palm on the plastic case while resisting with the right hand and at the same time trying my best to relax the neck muscles. Guess what? I can now feel the bone on the right side. The left and right sides feel the same. This has not been the case.
Now going forward I will need to maintain the ground I have taken and build on this success. I am now hoping that my sleep will improve and with it my energy level and love for life. I cannot expect this one thing to make all the difference. It will take effort on my part but I am hoping this small change will be the tipping point for me to move in a positive direction.
I am glad that the information was useful.
If you could manage to settle it yourself you were lucky- most cannot.
I certainly would not recommend that anyone try to repeat the exercise themselves!!
My blog needs major revision, as my biggest discovery has been that the original injury caused brainstem injury that left me with long term balance and co-ordination issues.
It has taken me years to get on top of these.
I am finally getting close- but I must stress that the aim is to achieve an upright, flexible posture and good eye hand co-ordination.
By “Upright” I mean SO upright that your ear canals, the centre of your shoulder joints and the centre of your hip joints lie in the one vertical plane.
This takes quite a bit of work- but the rewards in term of ability to remain calm and focussed are huge.
The reason this blog has remained anonymous has been the serious hostility I have faced from my local colleagues when I bring this matter up for public discussion.
That matter is close to being resolved, and when it is, I hope to have time to give more information on the blog.
For the meantime- it is well worth your while to go to the site psychevisual.com and look up a talk by the chiropractor Ian Niven on “visual suppression of the vestibular system”, another one by randy beck on “Clinical correlates of traumatic brain injury” and another by Matthew Holmes on “Cervical dystonia following central nervous system injury – a case study highlighting the functional neurology approach”. it costs $20 to subscribe for 1 month- but is worthwhile.
See the Biedermann book I have referenced.
I am doing specific exercises designed to correct the brainstem problem- a slow process, but progressively successful.
(Functional neurology- a new branch of chiropractic- still somewhat controversial with the conventional medical profession, but I am clear as to my improvements in reflexes, coordination and regulation of the stress response. Thankfully I have the anatomical knowledge and clinical skills to assess this- but this is an area where individuals must do their own research and make their own decisions).
100 Chiropractors over the past 20 years..but never an atlas expert.
Any suggestions for one near Santa Barbara CA.?
Thanks
Lillian
Be sure that your advisor is well informed of all sides of the argument before committing.
Your orthopedist is too ignorant to be fit to comment.
I found my major atlas subluxation was nicely fixed by one treatment with Atlas Profilax, but that correcting the rest of the spine and relearning abberant movement patterns related to my old scoliosis has been a much slower process.
Thanks! Anja
Stay tuned, there is much more information to come.
My experience is that I was badly injured by my profession’s foolish insistence that us doctors knew everything and chiropractors knew nothing.
Unfortunately to even voice that opinion in Australia is to risk the wrath of some very senior and powerful figures in the medical profession who are attempting to get chiropractic courses driven out of Australian Universities.
If I could pin this ignorance down to one individual, I would gladly sue for damages.
However I had some cervical flexion and extension xrays taken by a surgeon. He held my head in position to do them and forced my head forward and backward. He said he saw nothing to concern him whatsoever with the bone alignment and the twist and head pulling over was all down to a muscular issue. I am confused as if the muscles are in so much spasm I fail to see how the bones can be in alignment and also to how it differs to what I see from My Nucca xrays.
Who do I listen to? The Nucca doctor or the ortho guy. Do I get adjustments of massage? Any advice most welcome. Thanks so much
However,anomalous neuromuscular activity does develop and maintain this problem, and may need further work to deal with it.
Chiropractors are well trained to deal with this.
It can take some time for the adjustments to hold, your neck has become accustomed to being
in this position.
May i ask, what type of adjustment did the chiropractor do to cause your problems?
The NUCCA chiropractors do not ‘crack or ‘pop your neck or spine and would be the most
Benefical to your needs.
Hello from Minnesota USA. Medical doctors don’t seem to have answers. In regard to the Atlasprofilax, why don’t you ask my upper cervical chiropractor. Here is his e-mail.
DPPhillipsdc@gmail.com He is really nice and compassionate individual.
Teresa
Now as far as Atlas Profilax goes- my medical defence organisation has warned me that they would not insure me for any incidents involving Atlas Profilax- as the practitioners were not registered by AHPRA.I would comment though that they clearly arrived at that decision without having done due diligence on the subject and they refused to look at further information I offered to supply. My own experience of Atlas Profilax is that I have personally referred a good number of patients (about 100) all of whom did well. Another doctor I know has referred about the same number and those 200 recommended the treatment to their friends- resulting in about 200 more referrals- so I have seen a good case load.
However not all Atlas Profilax practitioners are trained enough to take people through the ongoing bodywork required to correct chronic postural issues associated with a longstanding atlas injury (these include fascial contractures, arthritic facet joints in the spine, sometimes spinal crush fractures and collapsed discs, and longstanding abberant patterns of movement. In this regard a good upper cervical or sacro-occipital proctitioner is the best option.
I would also disagree that Atlas Profilax is “the only” procedure that can correct the malalignment, and that atlas malalingments that have been corrected by Atlas Profilax always stay in place.
My own personal experience was that I had a rotatory misalignment of about 25 degrees and that the atlas profilax corrected that in a way that was uncomfortable but not painful, certainly did not seem risky, and produced an immediate result.
However- correcting my posture fully has been a big job and is taking a long while – and minor recurrent subluxations do occur. For those I have definitely found chiropractic effective and safe, and also more affordable than repeat episodes of Atlas Profilax.
What I would like to see would be more collaboration and less competition between Atlas Profilax and other manual and manipulative therapy traditions.
So- to answer your question- it really is something that you have to decide for yourself, but there is enough information there re safety.
Look especially at the atlantotec website– “their technique”- is actually virtually identical to Atlas Profilax– in fact I am told by an Atlas Profilax practitioner that they are a breakaway group from Atlas Profilax. However- they do have a study of 500 patients published on their website.
However, I have found that good chiropractors provide more comprehensive treatment than Atlas Profilax, that only fixes the one 9very important joint).
I have done enough research to be confident of sacro-occipital chiropractors and specific upper cervical chiropractors.
See http://isyourheadonstraight.com/prac2.asp?rid=1 and http://isyourheadonstraight.com/prac2.asp?rid=1 to find practitioners.
It sounds like an XRay would be in order.
As for heavy school bags- they will definitely make things worse- though the postural deformity caused by an atlas subluxation leaves one shoulder sitting up high- and people then prefer to use that shoulder to carry bags as the bag doesn’t fall off. An odd aside is that women always complain of the bra strap on the low shouler falling off and can never figure out wh until shown their posture.
My question to you is this, i have suffered for about 20 years now with a laundry list of symptoms. Many of them I am sure can be attributed to the Atlas issue and new chiro agrees. My primary issues now that making my life a living hell are allergies (which only started about 4 years ago), asthma (also started about 4 years ago), dizziness, vertigo, motion sickness, panic attacks, hear papks, etc. that come out of seemingly nowhere, etc. Chiro thinks these are probably Atlas related. However I also have suffered from chronic candida, leaky gut, digestive issues, etc, for around 20 years, viruses, bacterial infections, etc. I am 47 now, i have done the diets, anti-fungals etc., and nothing has helped. I read on another Atlas blog that the Atlas can lead to dysbiosis, due to a redirection of blood flow away from the gut. Do you feel that the Atlas can be the cause of candida and/or leaky gut in any way and do you have any suggestions on how to remedy it once snd for all? As I said, I have done the diets, probiotics, anti-fungals etc., all to no avail. I’m pretty desperate, tired of being fat and tired, and of eating such limited things. Thanks.
Look at this webpage:
http://www.dyslexiaonline.com/blog/intriguing-dyslexia-adhd-research-explains-hidden-origins-successful-treatment-phobias-announced-dr-harold-levinson/
So the issue here is that we know via the work of Heiner Biedermann and his colleagues (see Manual Therapy in Children) that the atlas problem is well and truly linked to balance/vestibular issues– and that there is a direct link between balance issues and stress/ anxiety.
The latest information is that a dysregulated stress response will lead to an imbalance between the helper and suppressor sides of the immune system (and that is putting it very crudely)– so asthma and allergies are likely to be part of the broader picture.
Re gut– the problems with chronic stress will divert blood flow away from the gut. The immune dysregulation is likely also to substantially increase the number of infections you get, and to increase your chances of being treated with antibiotics. Both impaired blood flow to the gut (via impairment of mucosal permeability and also altered gut motility and acidity), and increased antibiotics should be expected to be risk factors for intestinal dysbiosis &/or leaky gut. This problem in turn will further compromise good health and emotional regulation.
I would concur with your chiro (though still have trouble formally proving this as comprehensively as I would like).
However – with the atlas– when it is back in place– the rest of the issue is the small problem of keeping it back in place. My atlas was first corrected at age 47 by the supposedly one time Atlas Profilax- but my posture was distorted, my movement patterns were problematic and I am stuck with too much time at the computer.So- after another 4 years- I am pretty sure the problem is now fixed.I can certainly sense if it goes out and fix it very fast- and am now back in place and stable for the vast majority of the time.
Re Infections- I used to get 8 upper respiratory infections a year- (as a doctor I am in the firing line). I have had one or two in the 4+ years since the atlas was corrected by Atlas Profilax (which I regard as a good method, but not quite as good as its promotional material!)
I have found that I have got the best value from sacro-occipital chiropractic. They have a whole spine approach and gentle techniques.
I do note slow progress at the atlas area with some of my patients- and wonder if they might need one or two specific upper cervical adjustments.
These problems are complex and do not lend themselves to single treatment approaches in most cases- and any practitioner should be up front about that.
I expect my practitioners to be able to give me a good explanation of what progress they expect, and what clinical features tell them when it is time to change course.
I am happy for practitioners to offer a discount for a course of treatment versus session by session- but I would not personally be keen on paying up front for months of treatment. For a start- what if they get sick/die/go out of business?
I would guess that the adjustment left you with a sudden change in the mix of proprioceptive data being recieved by your brain- and that confusion is the cause of the problem. Persistinng with care is obviously important- but I think that the big thing we have to be looking at is ways to improve sensory integration– and that means things like qi gong, or maybe more formal sorts of dance or acrobatic type training.
Qi Gong is good because it is gentle and does not require a complex set of equipment etc to do it.
I have been looking at a new technique called “atlas balancing”- while I hve no idea at all of the efficacy of this treatment, one of its practitioners has an excellent series of vidos demonstrating the way to find the position of the atlas, and how to find a malaligned one:
http://www.atlasbalancingnow.com/practitioners.html
All 4 short videos are worth watching.
That overloaded leg will bear much more weight than the other one and be more prone to injury. Also significant is the fact that on the shortened side the knee and the hip are both thrown into external rotation and the foot pronates.
All of the above contribute to orthopedic problems at multiple levels.
To make matters even more complex- issues at the level of the foot, the sacro-iliac joints and also the temporomandibular (jaw) joint can feed back and destabilise the atlas.
While my initial Atlas Profilax treatment vastly improved my neck issues eleswhere continually destabilised it again.
In the end it has taken a year of work with a socro-occipital chiropractor to really resolve those issues, and that work has been assisted with other bodywork- initially yoga, but now specifically qi gong. It has also required expensive proprioceptive insoles. Now- after about a decade of difficulty with pain in bed at night due to multiple spinal issues- things are finally improving and I am sleeping through, and sometimes even waking with no stiffness. That has been a long time coming.
So the short answer is that the problems you describe need acomprehensive approach, and a determined persistent attitude.
As much as is possible I minimise analgesic use- and take the attitude that the pain is informing me that I am misusing my body.
That is, after all what the pain signalling mechanism is meant to do!
Anja
Definite benefit.
I saw a chiropractor for back pain initially but he had an x-ray ordered of my neck too. I have a loss of the curve in my neck, and mild curve in my spine. He also noted one of my shoulders is lower than the other (I really can’t hold it up), and the opposite leg is shorter than the other by a substantial amount. My head is always forward of my shoulders, I really can’t keep posture…it hurts like hell. Not to mention one of my “floating ribs” (the 11th I think?) is distorted and noticeably protrudes out from my abdomen on the right side. Sitting is painful, it feels like the rib is pressing on something inside.
He did back adjustments, pelvic adjustments, and those lovely “he’s going to break my neck” adjustments. None of which ever held for long. “At home” physical therapy made everything worse.
And then… it gets better. I suffered a blow to the head. Since then the pain in my neck at the base of my skull is excruciating and constant. I have to sleep perfectly on my back, with my neck perfectly supported and slightly tilted back, or I will wake up so stiff I can’t move my neck. The most recent neck adjustment by this new chiro caused an extreme left sided migraine, pain down my left shoulder and arm, fatigue, blurred vision… the chiro advised if it continued to go to the ER.
This most recent doctor even noted that at the base of my skull, there is a “bump” which he explained is probably me feeling the c2’s spinous process being slightly twisted, or one “side” of it is larger than the other…only it’s always protruding, tender and always centered. . Xrays, CT, and MRI all came back normal, aside from a noted “shift” that they didn’t really go into, said it was consistent with a the diagnosis of a sprain….
After finding this site I am finding myself basically screaming on the inside. If this is something most doctors don’t even recognize as being real, how the hell do I get someone to listen? They say everything is normal….and I’m telling you it is most certainly not considering I’m young.. with severe symptoms (pick any from the list above…I’ve had it, or have it. Including a recent diagnosis of ADHD). The worst part? This blow to he head… well, lets just say these doctors aren’t exactly on MY side. I am literally, lost for words.
I can only empathise. It is probably worse for me because I am a doctor and I am quite frankly embarrassed at the entrenched, systematic, deliberate ignorance of my profession.
It is worse than negligent.
I now regard my chiropractors as my primary care providers.
Have been living with vertigo for the last 20 years in the Bay Area California. Probably seen at least 30 chiro’s who claimed they could help me. Would appreciate any recommendations
for how I should approach healing. It’s been a very frustrating process. Wishing you all wellness..
Lil
he can recommend the kind of help you need in your area. My atlas was out!
ealourenco@cox.net. Blessings & good luck, Earlene
L DeBernardi 4692 Carpinteria Ave #38 Carpinteria CA 93013 925-487-6700
>
Screwed up back at work with no initial pain or issues just gradual progression of symptoms. Began being unable to fall asleep by getting brain-like jerks (similar to being startled when relaxed) just before drifting to sleep. Made sleep nearly impossible.
Adding to this next came extreme upper thoracic pain on the left side as well as left side of ribcage. Following this with chiropractic care (which made it worse), the instability spread to the chest and became very similar to costochondritis.
Adding to the above, and still experiencing the brain twitches; came a new odd jerking issue in my legs, which became extremely exacerbated when trying to enter sleep. Very much like Restless Leg syndrome. Adding to this came twitching in arms, thighs, buttocks, etc. Adding to this came leg tingling. Adding to this came leg numbness. It then proceeded to cycle through these symptoms sporadically.
Adding to all the above, the next thing in conjunction with the extreme back pain was cracking, popping, and occasional back spasms. Deep cracks in the thoracic area (more cracking when sitting or pinching back) and terrible pain following. Making any static movement (sitting or standing) terrible. Could feel the rib in my back, side and chest popping in and out as well.
Got prolotherapy to this area many many times which somewhat helped. After a year when pain, cracking and twitching, numbness, etc were still there, got neck prolotherapy as a recommendation from the specialist.
After neck prolotherapy, (the night of injection) immediately got a huge electric shock in throat and proceeded to sleep for 16 hours a night from this point on. Symptoms gradually creeped in within the next month.
Started becoming unable to ever feel more or less tired; it began to feel like my body was always in a sleepy overly docile state. Could not get to sleep until 10 am the following day everyday.
Became extremely weak, cold, body somewhat numb like it was in shock/fight or flight response, legs wobbly, super anxious, depressed and scared for no reason. Became unable to think clearly, started reading dyslexic and skipping words, and could stare into space in a near vegetative state for hours. Lack of internal dialogue or ability to think properly. Short term memory loss, etc. Got lost in a grocery store trying to remember where I parked for an hour.
Daily consciousness felt like overtraining coupled with low testosterone coupled with excessive marijuana use burnout coupled with watching a loved one die in front of you (being in shock/shaky legs/numb body).
Alleviating stress on neck aka lying sideways on a pillow would help alleviate symptoms and I would be able to think more clearly.
Neck began making grating sounds when rotating when in sleeping position. Neck began cracking and popping in c1 area and halfway up the back of my head would snap badly. Hotness in feet and hands occured and were followed by intense bone squeezing aches from the knees down or ankles down depending on my daily luck.
Both eyes started to burn red and water constantly (would wake up to left eye crusted shut). Eye lid muscles began to weaken and eyes began looking like that of a drug addict/zombie. Left side of face would go numb, as well as entire head would go numb at times, headaches too. As well as sinus issues, clogged ear sensation (like in plane) and popping in eardrums when opening jaw. As well as extreme sensitivity to light, making exposure unbearable and feeling sick and nauseous from it. Couldnt stand much in light.
Pupils will dilate under low-light or darkness almost entirely covering iris. In sunlight pupils will contract so small that they look like a snake and are almost completely gone.
////Potential Conditions I Have / Relatable Symptoms;/////
Slipping RIb Syndrome
Snapping Scapula
Costochondritis
Brain Jerks (Unknown)
Restless Leg Syndrome
Leg/Body Twitching/Numbness/Hot Sensations (Unknown)
///Following Neck Injection////
C1/Atlas Instability =/= Barrie Louie Syndrome
Low Testosterone (Resulting From Above)
Pregnenalone Deficiency (Resulting From Above)
Any tips/advice?
99% of doctors are unaware of any of this because it exceeds their medical book from uni. Typically can expect a “i dont know” response followed by suggesting a muscle relaxant or a anti-depressant. Aka worthless help.
Fixing these problems is difficult when they are that entrenched. I too have had huge issues with the thoracic spine and ribs, with associated racing heart.The trouble is that the spine is affected at multiple levels and problems at lower levels cause postures that continually destabilise the atlas.
My approach has been to seek neurological rehabilitation from a specialist chiropractor and have a second chiropractor work on the alignment issues.
I have done a great deal of Vipassana body scanning and apply the better body awareness to achieve a correct upright meditation posture – and to hold it while on the computer. I have also done a great deal of work learning self massage, trigger point massage, and done yoga and now QiGong. Now five years after the initial treatment I am defintely well advanced on an improving course. It is a really tough journey, but it is good to be feeling well again.
I continue to not sustain with exception of lower extremities – having successful alignment for several months to a year at a time. I now have a dislocated mandible (left); repetitive costochondral separation – 1st and 2nd rib in persistent unstable condition; unstable clavicle – shifts into unstable left shoulder; C1 & C2 Sub. – unstable; C3,4,7 – periodic; thoracic rotation persistence. Vagus nerve impacts from head on down persistent as well.
After years of being told everything from I “don’t have enough meat on my bones”, to “the only thing wrong with you is mental” … I began finding help, although no success in sustained improvement after 30+ years on no care …However self-pain management has increased significantly. My greatest limitation is insurance and disability determination limitations.
Enough about me … I was devastated when my athletic, food conscious, non smoking; no-drugs; minimal-alcohol son described the pain and other symptoms I knew all to well. With a great chiropractor now, the concern is that he is not sustaining either. He has double-mandible dislocation; CI – persistent; costochondral (1 episode); rib2 – persistent – front and thoracic; persistent lower misalignment. His chiropractor is more than accommodating to him both in care and economic awareness – and a bit frustrated himself.
I don’t know how to give him hope when my limitations are so enormous and continue to exasperate. Our rural location and depleted resources are definitely a factor. He lives a block from me – to help me, and now I’m pulling back on this as he is impacted by my needs.
I do not know where to go from here … For me, kanesio taping was highly beneficial until recently. My skin and my muscles are fighting it now.
Any idea on how long these take to improve?
Am I supposed to feel better right away or not?
Could these issues be causing my brain fog, constant fatigue, low libido, depression, anxiety etc?
Improvements can be fairly quick when the alignment is correct- but adjusting to the shift in alignment takes a little time- and you can feel a little fragile for a few days after.
I felt immediate improvement after atlas profilax, and usually feel immediate improvement on the day of an adjustment.
Certainly when my atlas slips out of alignment I develop clumsy speech and blurred vision within 1/2 an hour.
The worst case was accompanied by an abrupt loss of thermoregulation and one sided vasodilation- and flushing of my face.
I couldn’t not leave without telling you my story and my experiences. I have recently re aligned my own atlas / c5 after doing a lot of research.
Ever since I was a kid my head was tilted, i remember closing each eye and looking at my nose with the open eye (alternating), it was like my nose was twisted but little did I know it was my head! Strange how nobody else noticed / pointed it out either.
Anyway, had pretty much all of the symptoms above apart from headaches, and wow am i impulsive (or used to be). All the way through my life (28 now) people have said I seem to lack common sense, I’ve been a moderate/ heavy social binge drinker for years and was always doing stupid things (even when sober) i thought impulsiveness was just my personality, it’s crazy!
I always thought my jaw was bigger on one side (then came the anxiety!) but it was actually underdeveloped sternocleidomastoid, levatator scapulae and trapezius on one side so yep my head was also twisted.
For years I’ve not ACTUALLY known the problem, too shy to seek prof. help, it’s not until I started working out (which I thought would cure any imbalance) that I realised the problem was a lot more serious. Basically one side of my body was developing unevenly/ slower which after research (and watching Elliott Hulse on Youtube) I realized my atlas / c5 mis alignment was sending bad signals out throught my nervous system.
Some of my personal symptoms on the effected side: (even though I was stretching like crazy) 1. could only turn my head (opposite to affected side) about 30deg, 2. Extremely tight trap – felt like it was gripping onto the ribcage when moved, 3. Deep breathe caused strange sensation (again, ribcage tightness), 4. Lower back was extremely tight (pelvis almost frozen, hardly any anterior/posterior movement), 5. Trapped nerve on trap/upper back, 6. Sharp Pain in mid back next to spine (trigger point maybe). 6. Impulsiveness, 7. Major anxiety, 8. feelings of hopelessness and depression, 9. Crunching when hitting the 30deg mark mentioned above, 10. ALMOST FORGOT – Major jaw pain (but on the opposite side)…the list goes on!
Anyway here’s what I did:
First started stretching following this video (do the affected side twice as much):
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxar8p0WcIM
2. Next go for a walk and focus on tensing the lower abs and the squeezing the glutes while tilting the pelvis forward (flattening your lower back) – this will release the tight pelvis muscles in your lower back. (I find walking and doing is easier – You may even feel your walking posture improve)
3.Next do these exercises to re align the c5/atlas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhflOZe4YKA
(AND LIKE HE SAYS DO THEM EVERY HOUR TRUST ME!)
I also roll out my mid back / s.blades on a foam roller.
I can’t explain how I feel now I’ve fixed mine, it’s amazing… All my symptoms have gone, my anxiety is non existent, my pelvis is free, my neck looks even and healthy, head posture is excellent and I feel so much more switched on and connected to myself and my body. I know it’s not going to be the same for everyone but after more than 10 years of having these weird cervical / alignment / imbalance problems and now after a just a few days of rehab it’s gone! got to give hope to others! I really hope this helps you :)
Also might be worth mentioning I eat a plant based diet but with protein (fish, chicken only) and also drink home made milk Kefir (the stuff is holy water!) Peace and Longevity!
thank you for your reply.
Those exercises you referred to really are excellent- and I will be referring my own patients to those links.
The emphasis on doing the scapular/cervical ones hourly really is of critical importance, as we have to de-activate an abberrant postural and muscle activation pattern that has been persisting for years- and that cannot be achieved overnight.
I personally have recently commenced Qi Gong- and find that the increased subtlety of body awareness that that gives me has vastly improved my alignment.
I have been closely inspecting the skull on which I learned anatomy- and have actually identified that it has a small defect on the base of the skull that would make the atlas much more likely to slip out of place with minimal movement.
I suspect that the individual whose skull I possess had a birth injury, and that atlas was misaligned from birth, while the bones were still remodelling. Consequently the labrum of the occipital condyle is deficient on one side- and he would have had an unstable atlas.
I have had to work at multimodal treatment for years to get good progress with this problem.
As I see it the issue is that this is usually a longstanding injury (very often a birth injury) and it leads to very deeply entrenched aberrant patterns of posture and movement – which leads to secondary issues with orthopedic problems such as stretched ligaments and osteoarthritis. The bottom line is that our bodies have learned as default a posture that involves a twist running through the entire spine, and unless the whole crooked posture is corrected it will set up a situation in which the atlas is inclined to re-displace.
I suspect that many of us who are coming to treatment later in life will require ongoing treatment and an ongoing commitment to exercise and work to maintain posture. None of this is easy in a culture which requires us to spend so much time sitting at the computer to work.
I personally have had to spend quite an amount of time working at learning self massage and trigger point therapy techniques.
I have not had specific experience with ankylosing spondylitis- and in the case of that particular problem results will be limited by the degree of rigidity of the spine.
I really can’t give specific medical advice as to which treatment you should have except to say that there are non manipulative treatments available. For instance I see a chiropractor who specialises in Sacro-occipital technique. She gets great results simply by using the activator to release the tense muscles that hold the neck out of place.
The comment by John dated 11 June 2014 gives links to some helpful exercises that are certainly safe and I have found very helpful- but they must be maintained.
In terms of mechanism of your symptoms- I do need to update the blog.The biggest contributions to the symptoms are likely to be direct mechanical stretch on the brainstem and also related to a degree of upset of the regulatory systems of the autonomic nervous system caused by confused information input to the brain. As best as I can understand from my own researches the malalignment at the upper cervical spine causes a distortion of body position awareness which means that your body is not in the exact place your brain thinks it is- and there is a different mismatch of the information on the left and right sides. Your autonomic nervous system is meant to stabilise your blood pressure,pulse and other basic functions so that they are appropriate to your posture. Equally the subtle imbalance caused by the problem causes stress responses as well.
This video gives some demonstration of the problems involved when your balance system is not functioning well but you need to pay for a 1 month subscription to the site:
http://www.psychevisual.com/Video_by_Ian_Niven_on_Light_induced_suppression_of_the_vestibular_system.html
Also of note- excessive curvature of the thoracic spine and forward head posture can be contributory. The thoracic spine issue is probably related to hyperstimulation of the sympathetic nerve chain – at the point where it crosses the base of the rib at its attachment to the spine.The sympathetic nerves at the level of the upper thoracic spine stimulate the heart.
My chiropractor (Ian Niven- featured in the video) disagrees- but I do personally think that direct vagus nerve irritation can be a problem if there is forward head posture- and particlarly if one “leads with the head” when standing up. It used to cause me marked dizziness when I stood up too quickly. Alexander technique, Pilates or Feldenkrais can be very beneficial in correcting these habits.
I personally have made great stides through QiGong (which has good evidence in improving balance and in falls reduction).
The video is really excellent and Ian is very skilled at working with aberrant reflexes in a new branchof chiropractic called functional neurology. Looking at your blog I am sure you would find it valuable.
I do not think the conservatism is really primarily driven by economic factors- but it is certainly driven by information overload and the difficulty of learning and thinking within a new paradigm for most busy practitioners. I would love to learn some kinesiology- but am flat out doing what I am doing.
The alignment exercises are most important. I am getting great benefit from doing QiGong.
As I previously mentioned- it is likely that the mechanical traction on the vagus nerve is a lesser factor and the bigger problems relate to distorted input information into the brainstem and traction on the brainstem.
I have been suffering horrendous symptoms as above for 10 years including terrible brain fog and ear problems. A had Labyrinthitis 10 years ago which is where my symptoms became obvious and I’m still battling with deafness, balance, anxiety, headaches, high heart rate, depression etc. but my gp has pretty much passed it off as depression the whole time.
I have just seen someone and they say I do have atlas and cervical spine problems after an x ray! So a glimmer of hope!
The problem is, I’ve been told it will take 6 months to a year to fix with 10 minute appointments twice a week each costing 40 pounds.
Obviously hearing people have sorted this in a matter of hours has gotten me thinking. Do you think I’m being taken for a ride and should I seek help elsewhere?
If so, does anyone have any advice on where to go in the uk?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Many thanks
Quick fixes are possible in infants and in childhood- but not later.
That is clear from Biedermann’s work.
This You Tube clip shows just such a quick fix in an infant:
As a rule the older we are and the longer we have been out of posture and operating a crooked body, the more engrained our problems with spinal alignment are. By adulthood most of us have malalignments at multiple levels and aberrant movement patterns adapted to moving that crooked body.The movement patterns tend to re-displace us back into old postures and we are back where we started.
When you get into your 30s or 40s there will be addtional issues with secondary osteoarthritis- so everything feeds back.
I would agree that for most people an extended period of treatment will be needed and the course of progress is not even- there are setbacks and leaps forward.
Progress is much faster if you are able to commit to a regular exercise program with a variety of different activities, plenty of emphasis on coordination and balance and to also work with continuous mindfulness of posture– correcting any forwards head posture or upper and/or lower crossed syndromes.
It is worth the effort though.
I posted here a while ago, pretty lengthy post somewhere up there. Anyway, I’ve found a great exercise to restore head posture (which is what I think the reason for my sublaxation was) Here’s a link:
Some of the videos I posted above helped me but ultimately this one has done it for me. It restores thoracic extension. Back in the day as hunter gatherers climbing, running etc this was never ever a problem but obviously these days many of us sit down at desks all day so certain muscle groups tighten so in my mind some kind of maintenance is essential.
Since I’ve been doing this multiple times a day I’ve noticed I’m just so much more relaxed as it’s helped release my problem neck muscels / trigger points, my head rotation is pretty much back to normal (symmetrical at least) but the main thing is my mood, my anxiety has gone and my mind is settled and I can process thoughts properly again, it’s weird everything seems relaxed, I feel my mind to body connection is much better plus a whole load of other stuff but I won’t list them here now. I also workout and do cardio which also helps loads.
Basically (for me at least) this exercise helped release the tense muscles on the left side of my neck so I think my sublaxtion was caused by tight neck muscles pulling my head of centre so ultimately this exercise has allowed thoracic extension so I could go ahead and do stretches on my neck which before I just couldn’t do because they were SO tight and was actually making them tighter.
Now, my head is aligned how it should be, I look better – not so hunched up even my walk is better, still working on it as there is still much improvement to be made, lucky for I’m young I guess so it came easy.
Prior to my own research, nothing the doctor said ever helped, he didn’t even see a problem with my head / body posture CRAZY it seems to me doctors aren’t educated in the right way for the modern world at least for these types of issues! maybe I should have just seen an osteopath from the start! but self help is the best help if you prefer!
BTW I would also recommend researching rounded shoulders, pec minor stretches etc, but remember EVERY bone has muscles EACH side so in order to retain balance you must keep things symmetrical.
Don’t take my advice as gospel I’m just a 28 year old web developer who had all the symptoms of atlas sublaxation. This blog has helped me loads btw so thanks!
Live long, live strong!
I have been doing the exercises you previously recommended and am very pleased with the results.
I have just added in a couple of “Chin tuck” exercises – one unresisted and one with a Theraband, to help increase extensor strength in the neck muscles.It appears to me that one of the big issues we face is related to anterior slippage of the atlas on the skull when in forward head posture- so increased strength in the neck extensors is essential. This is an example of a chin tuck exercise:
http://www.spineuniverse.com/wellness/exercise/neck-pain-prevention-chin-tuck-exercise-video
The obvious qualifier is always not to force through pain, and to seek proper qualified review if not progressing well or if there are any unusual or troublesome symptoms.
Incidentally, I agree with you 100% that the medical profession is inexcusably ignorant in this area. We spend way too much time listening to and being influenced by drug reps and going to education events hosted by pharmaceutical companies. Sometimes it seems to me that we have forgotten about any forms of treatment other than drugs and surgery.
We probably do need to eat meat to function in a healthy way.
I would recommend you read “Go Wild” by Dr John Ratey.
The basic issue is that our upright posture requires a trim waistline in order to maintain the strength of the core muscles, which, in turn, maintain upright posture and that in turn keeps the atlanto-occipital joint in correct alignment.
So- a trim waistline requires a short gut- and that means we struggle to maintain sufficient energy input unless we eat meat, or high density carbohydrate. High density carbohydrate, however, is not part of our ancestral diet and predisposes to insulin resistance and all its associates illnesses.
In addition the movement patterns associated with upright posture are far less mechanically efficient than the postures associated with 4 legged gait- and that also increases our energy input requirement.
I won’t bore you with details but after a bad case of Labyrinthitis 10 years ago I have been suffering with many if the above issues horrendously including balance and ear problems and severe brain fog.
I have just seen someone and they say I do have a misaligned atlas and cervical problems but it will take 6 months to a year of 10 minute appointments twice a week at 40 pounds a session to potentially sort it.
After reading some people have it fixed in a matter of hours I am now concerned and confused. I’m desperate to sort this and sort it properly. Am I being taken for a ride?
I am based in the uk. Should I see someone else?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you for the reply regarding regular treatment. However, I read a lot of people saying they can ‘fix’ the initial problem within an hour. Do you think it is advisable to go for one or 2 longer sessions to correct the misalignment and then go for regular checkups to insure everything is staying corrected?
My concern is that 10 minute appointments twice a week at £40 seems a lot for not a lot of work. I have been to 3 appointments and they use a ‘electric hammer’ type device to massage around the spine but they use the device for merely a matter of minutes.
Obviously, if slow and steady is the best way to do it I ok with that but I don’t want to wasting any more time and money if I can get it sorted quicker.
On a separate matter, a couple of years ago, I had my mandibular jaw broken and it healed slightly wrong. I have been having a few issues with this and my ear, balance and hearing has gotten worse that side (whereas it was mainly bad the other side before). Will this break mean that I cannot get fully better with re-alignment of my C1, C2 etc?
Many thanks
The trouble with any neck adjustment is that they cause a shift in the information coming into your brain. That causes a period of confusion and feeling worse.
Equally- just as there are good and bad doctors- there are good and bad chiropractors– I have always found the best way to work with any practitioner is to keep on bringing my complaints to them until they can either sort me out or have he sense to ask for a second opinion.
Dr Heiner Biedermann in Germany is one of the few MDs I know who works with this problem- though no doubt there are other European ones who can do so.
Re risk of stroke– this is extraordinarily rare- and the risk of a serious complication due to a medical treatment is vastly more likely.
I will comment that there are techniques in QI GONG ( a bit like Tai Chi) that can help unknot these neck problems- but these take time to learn.I have been working with Qi Gong for 9 months now- and it really helps the effect of the chiropractic work that i have been having.
I note that it can be of value in sacroiliac joint dysfunction – so it may have a place.
The recovery from the postural distortions associated with a spinal malalignment is often complicate by local tendinous pain- so, logically it could well have a place. You would need to discuss it with someone adept in the therapy.
seem like you know what you’re talking about!
Thanks
Personal experience counts for a lot- especially when combined with an education that allows one to process the information.
I guess that I was fortunate in that my own medical care was so stuffed up by my fellow doctors that I have learned that the rule is
“Make your own observations and your own formulations– or die”.
Do not rely on authority- or the opinion of specialists- especially not clowns like Harriet Hall or Stephen Novella.
If I had not become so disrespectful of medical authority I would already be 6 feet under.