Wednesday, 1 March 2017

As interesting today as 5 years ago - and no change

#1
Anonymous
what was your trigger
Hi!
I hope you dont mind me asking,but what do you consider was your trigger that resulted in an ms diagnosis,
Stress
Epstein barr virus- which includes gladular fever, the herpies complex, which includes cold sores,  genital herpes even shingles or chicken pox is related to it.
Perhaps a car accident, which has included a whiplash injury
 
I don't consider there was one, sorry.
With hindsight, I think I had it years without realising, but I don't think anything in particular sparked it off.
I didn't find out until after diagnosis that it was already in the family.
So I would just say: "Bad genes".
The processes that led to MS could have begun years before I noticed any symptoms, and certainly years before I was diagnosed.
It could have been a ticking time bomb since conception.
Tina
I believe mine was Optic neuritis when I was 19 (now 44) , was not diagnosed to some years after though. Also around 5 years ago  got undiagnosed and last year after my feet and legs had bad pins and needles got re diagnosed with benign MS.  I do believe my 2nd relapse was brought on by stress.
My symptoms began when I was 12, but it wasn't until my granny died when I was 28 that I got ON and a diagnosis.  My granny died on the Sunday, the ON started on the Tuesday and by the day of the funeral, the Friday, I was completely blind in that eye.  That was when the doctors finally took me seriously and investigated things properly.  My symptoms have been more severe since diagnosis than the ones pre-dx, not sure what might have triggered the pre-dx ones, think it may have been stress from being bullied at school, but I can't really remember.
I agree with Tina - I think that the MS has been present all my life, but it took stress to bring it to the surface.
Luisa x
I dont think there was a trigger,I was a happy go lucky mum at age 19,who enjoyed being a mum and aunty to many children,take kids to the beach,the park,bonfires,I was so fit.
At 19 I started to get headaches so bad I cried in pain,with that I got complete numbness all down the left side of my face,pain,and my left side of my face drooped and slurred speach,dizzyness/vertigo..I put this down to taking the female pill so I stopped taking it and the symptoms continued.
Now looking back it apparently was MS symptoms.I went from being fit,running around playing football to what I am today.
So no I didnt have stress,my life was very good,even over the years I still had a darn good life,I worked and done volunteer work.
Nope,sorry there is no trigger and no no one in my family have it and my twin sister is MS free.

Charlie,x
I'd put it down to a very stressful time at Uni, that not only led to me having a major eating disorder, once the bad time was over I was habitually so tired I couldn't do course work, clinical work and have a life all at once, I gave up all the activities I used to do (it was not unusual for me to run in the morning, cycle to uni and then swim later in the day), I thne got lots of weird symptoms that just couldn not be diagnosed until finally I put my foot down and said I needed to see a neuro (MS runs in my family), he told me it was likely MS but that I really didnt' need to know as it would look bad on my occ health record, then I finally got in for an MRI and was diagnosed.  I muddled along quite well for years but recently its all got a bit much for me.
I have MS
I honestly don’t think it had anything to do with Roy Rogers horse.  Perhaps it was all due to a misaligned Atlas, but who knows.
I had epstein barr whilst at university, also taking exams, thus major headache and stress.

I had weird symptoms like dropping to the floor unexplained, types of fit like symptoms, shakes, weakness, then ON, numbness and major fatigue, then diagnosis.

A great deal of unexplained happenings quite a good few years beforehand but never explained, so I think now Ive had ms for a lot longer pre diagnosis.

With me I would say stressful times probably masked ms symptoms yet in another way highlighted them.  Masked in that I had a lot to deal with, then highlighted when they never left me.  Does that make sense?

bren
x
 
Hi, I don't think there was a trigger, I was dx aged 50 but looking back I probably had for a few years previously. I did have a very bad case of glandular fever when I was eighteen . Karen
I have MS
I believe I have had MS for a very long time but chose to ignore the symptoms as they went away and didn't impact on my life. The year before dx however; I overdid things big time, no longer looked after my health, no longer had time to rest between work and home, My immune system hit rock bottom and was followed by a very bad relapse which eventually affected most of my left side. I had an MRI and was given a dx more or less straight away. I don't know what the original trigger was only that my mum had R/arthritis and I have been told that is my genetic connection. 
Stress over the past 10 years has not helped it.
Wendyxx
I have MS
believe I have had MS for a very long time but chose to ignore the symptoms as they went away and didn't impact on my life. The year before dx however; I overdid things big time, no longer looked after my health, no longer had time to rest between work and home, My immune system hit rock bottom and was followed by a very bad relapse which eventually affected most of my left side. I had an MRI and was given a dx more or less straight away. I don't know what the original trigger was only that my mum had R/arthritis and I have been told that is my genetic connection. Epstein Barr virus and vitamin D are also linked to that too.
Anonymous
hi there, i didnt know i had anything wrong with me until i was 28. but i did have glandular fever when i was 14. and one of my doctors said something along the lines of that being a part of it...so you never know. as i got to 28 and never noticed anything else. x
efb
Tetanus injection
I have MS
i had bell's palsy when i was 17. then no problems until i was 49.
that year i overdid things big time resulting in my dx a year later.
my auntie had ms in the 1960's.
my neuro nodded to every one of these when i told him but said it only meant that i was more prone to ms.

carole xx
Hi There,
I took quite unwell after I had my wee boy - this was put down to a virus although all the tests for MS were conducted (unknown to me).
One year later the exact same condition returned and I received my diagnosis of MS.
My consultant at the time said it was common for woman to develop symptoms after having a baby???
Jo
 
Hi there, I had glandular fever at 19 when I was at uni and think this may have been what triggered MS. Teresa xx
Anonymous
glandular fever is used quite alot in these posts maybe there is something in this..
Stress and heartache
My bloods during the diagnosis process, showed my body had been trying hard to fight a virus. I was unaware I'd had a virus.
Due to extensive lesions, the Neuro said I could have had MS for years but who knows!
Anonymous
I do wonder if there was a trigger, meningitis aged 18 months but followed by 23 years in the RAF and 15 vears travelling arounf oil platforms fixing gas turbine generators.
Arrived home with gastric discomfort which was diagnosed as peritonitis ,a bowel resection, followed by 10 weeks off work,was (eventualy) diagnosed as having  PPMS.
Who knows?        
Shingles.  The first MS symptoms turned up in the same place 3 months later.
Alison
x
I have MS
Hiya
For me I can point it to Chicken Pox that I got from my nephew when I was 20 years old.  Who knows though?  Was that the trigger' reacting to a certain type of gene that I had?  All I know is that from that point onwards there has been a slow slippery down hill curve with more and more symptoms.  



Marty
 
Mine was after I gave birth to my eldest son 17 years ago he was quite poorly after he was born and spent a few weeks in hospital it was then I developed ON.  Never had any symptons prior to that for me it was definately childbirth and the stress afterwards!
I have always been prone to tonsillitis but in spring 2010 I had suspected glandular fever. I muddled on and a couple of months later had a strange case of pins and needles in my hands and torso which no one took particularly seriously (myself included) so I pretty much ignored it and got used to it. I then had what was diagnosed at the time as labrynthitis (nasty) and had my first clinical relapse in July 2011. My first relapse coincided with a particularly stressful period in my life. I was dumped in spectacular fashion, a week later I was maid of honour at my mums wedding (part of the job entailing sorting out family disputes) then 2 weeks after that I was at a particularly harsh interview for my dream job. During this interview I lost the use of my right hand side. Although anything could have triggered the ms to start I believe it was this stressfull period in my life which exacerbated the symptoms and made the relapse really bad. I was diagnosed as a consequence of this relapse (and the optic neuritis that followed) and today I am going for my 4th tysabri infusion. If nothing else that stressful period led to my unexplained symptoms being explained, I'm on treatment to help and I will have the support of medical professionals for the rest of my life. All in all I'd say it's a good thing that I had to go through that so I could get to where I am today.
This is such an interesting subject - we have discussed it several times ,on this, and the old site. l had a very severe case of shingles - which did take me a long time to get over. Then l became pregnant - and that was the start of my MS symptoms. My MS has been SPMS from the start - and its now 30yrs. l have had shingles three times now - not in the same place. Personally, l believe that vitd3 deficiency was the key - which is why l am always 'plugging it' especially for newbies - and young women thinking of having a baby.
Before MS - l was physically very fit and well - l have never drunk or smoked - can't say l have ever done anything to compromise my health - so nothing to blame it on. l have taken high dose vit d3 for the last 3yrs - as l have osteo- arthritis in my hip/knee/ankle - and l did fall and fractured my ankle - this is my 'good leg' not the ms one - which justs hangs there all floppy. Since taking a highdose vitd3 20.000ius for over 2yrs - now down to 10.000ius my bone-density has improved and my vitd3 levels are higher but still not as high as they should be. When first tested they were rock bottom. Now they are about 98 [ Need to be 175/225]
So its keep taking the tablets and l use a sun-bed occasionally - and try to get as much sunshine as possible.
F. 
Ok This is just mine: I was born boss eyed (blind, had it corrected) also had epilepsy until I was 11. Always had troubles in school so they all thought I was dyslexic but I was not.
Even as a child I was always tired and not well so I did badly in school because of this.
I had my first real attack when I was 20 but I do feel it has always been there.
Stress and upset seem to help towards with relapses now tho. I guess there is no real answers to MS yet its so complex.
Anonymous
Really interesting discussion.
Looking back, I had what could've been the first symptoms from early childhood - very weak bladder, total inability to control urgency. I definitely won't tell you the story of the sink in my bedroom...
I think my first adult relapse/batch of symptoms was triggered by an operation I had in 2005 - was supposed to be a fairly routine op, under general, to remove a large lump of scar tissue (a 10 year old injury) on my hip/buttock. The op was much more complicated than expected and the surgeon had to do an awful lot of digging around. I (and neuro agrees) believe that the trauma to my nervous system during the op triggered what had been lying dormant. My right big toe went numb the day after the op, then over the course of the following months the numbness spread upwards and all the other niggles reared their ugly heads. That was the beginning! 

KIMOSABY,

SMALLPOX VACCINATION

GEORGE
Dear 'goodtotalk',
I went to University, but I was sure that I didn't know what my what 'diagnosis' was? It was (about 39 when I first discovered 'MS' - I'm 56 now) - I 'read' the MS websites but I don't know what 'caused' it ?
Marcus.
 
I'm still in limbo but I was the most energetic child ever then had Glandular Fever aged 15 which left me wiped out for months.
I recovered fully but when I had my 2nd daughter when I was 23 my thyroid stopped working at all. I got over that but then again at probably age 28 I had about 6 weeks of total debilitating fatigue and doc thought I had glandular fever again. My arms were weak and I was pathetic. The blood tests didn't give a reason. I've often had unexplained month long 'extra-tired' times but never so bad as that original one until March 2011. Then, the bloods showed very low lymph and platelets but no explanation.
Then wham, in November, the neurological stuff started big time and I had a full 2 month 'attack' of very MS like symptoms. I've improved hugely since New Year but have never recovered properly: I'm still spazzing, jerking, more tired, buzzing, prickling, twitching, burning, weak, weird feeling skin.
crying1
My GP at the time (when I was 17) assumed that I "might have glandular fever" because I was extremely depressed, and I felt totally exhausted - even when I had just got out of bed. I couldn't talk to anyone, and no one else could talk to me. Then I developed optic neuritis, and the party really began!!
                              Best Wishes all,
                                            Moira
I haven't the slightest idea,tbh.
However,I was born and brought up in Scotland.
I do bottle things up A LOT.So stress maybe?
Pure bad luck anyway.I try not to think along the lines of 'why me?'.It's a waste of my time and energy to do so.I've got it and it won't go anyway,no matter what I do.I try and ignore it when I can but I don't fight it.There's no point.
Brenda x
I got chicken pox when I was 25 and was also having vague dental pains which the dentist couldn't find out what was causing them. I had my first child at 26 and second child at 28, then started feeling giddy,lethargic. Got dx with RRMS at age of 30.
Anonymous
Hi!

I'd like to thank you all for being so candid. its been very enlightening and is very important, to guage an accurate picture of contributing factors. So thank you again.
anu
whammel wrote:

I honestly don’t think it had anything to do with Roy Rogers horse.  Perhaps it was all due to a misaligned Atlas, but who knows.


I'm tending to blame a misaligned atlas, candida and a tank full of goldfish.......
whammel wrote:

I honestly don’t think it had anything to do with Roy Rogers horse.  Perhaps it was all due to a misaligned Atlas, but who knows.


happyWhamel! Wasted Roy Rogers reference, fillystines

Rosemary Conley is right in her approach

many fools jumped onto the exercise video and diet  band waggon

They have got i wrong - I was Goodtotalk - Ms Society website is dangerous

07 Jun 2012 at 7:50 pm #1
Could they have got it wrong?
Hey,
Wasnt sure which forum to post this on so decided this one.
Im just wondering whos had blood test for vit b12 thats comes back showing a deficiancy? and how common is it to have vit12 def and ms.
I was diagnosed with RRMS last year, supported by MRI and LP results, but would having a vit12 def have an effect on that? Hope thats making sense, I know what Im trying to say haha.
Ive managed to convince myself over the past week (im awaiting results for blood test) that I havent got ms after all! 
I'm B12-deficient and a lot of MSers seem to be.  I get injections 3 monthly to top me up.  Many of us find out we are B12-deficient because it is one of the easiest things to check out when someone is showing neuro problems (I can't honestly remember whether mine was checked before or after diagnosis - it was a long time ago.)  My B12 levels must have been in the pink for about 10 years now on account of the injections.  I've still go MS though, sad to say.  Sorry.
Alison
x

 
Hi, Vitamin B12 deficiency can certainly cause MS like symptoms, and it can, when extreme, cause nerve damage. It's diagnosed, as you know, by blood tests. It is not dx through MRI or LP and does not cause MS, so no, sorry to say, you still have MS although having the Vit B12 deficiency treated might help your symptoms.
From what I can tell by internet sites (so I am certainly not an expert!) it can cause pernicious anaemia (or perhaps is the same thing... doesn't seem clear) which is an auto immune condition, same as MS ... so it seems more likely that having MS may have caused the problem with Vit B12 than other way round.
I have been tested for Vit B12 and am ok. I think what happens is that when we get MS symptoms we are tested for loads of other stuff (inc vit B12 and vit D) and therefore some people are at that point found deficient... but of course if we didn't have MS symptoms we would never have been tested so it wouldn't have been found. Must be millions of people who are deficient but never have reason to be tested. Does that make sense?
Sorry to dash your hopes of not having MS... I think with MRI and LP results, and obviously your symptoms, you will have to accept that it is MS.
Anyway, google it. There's loads of info online.
Take care,
Pat x
Anonymous
Tiger,

Yes they could have it wrong. There is a condition called Candida, I discovered I had it, over a year ago. when peolpe hear the word Candida the automatically think of vaginal thrush, but NO not this baby, it is considered to be the silent epidemic, as you wont know you have got it, I didnt. It causes a multitude of problems, vitamin deficiency is one of them, and many many others from allergies to joint pain, it can also be misdiagnosed as rheumatoid arthritus, its absolutely astounding, I have researched the subject extensively over the last 14months, it most certainly should be public knowledge, as can be brought on by stress, poor diet  or antibiotic use, and thats why doctors deny it exists, and that is a massive mistake, it cannot be diagnosed by a blood test. It was discovered back in the 1980s and has gone unchecked since then, so in my opinion has been passed from mother to child, as it invades the blood, it is a fungus it is also called Candidiasis or Candida albicans. I believe mine was brought on by stress, wow did I suffer that big time and over many years, I was a worrier and the situation I found myself in contributed to the stress load (lack of money), it was a constant drip drip of stress and over many years
Candida needs to be public knowledge as can explain a lot.
goodtotalk wrote:

Yes they could have it wrong. There is a condition called Candida, I discovered I had it, over a year ago. when peolpe hear the word Candida the automatically think of vaginal thrush, but NO not this baby, it is considered to be the silent epidemic, as you wont know you have got it, I didnt. It causes a multitude of problems, vitamin deficiency is one of them, and many many others from allergies to joint pain, it can also be misdiagnosed as rheumatoid arthritus, its absolutely astounding, I have researched the subject extensively over the last 14months, it most certainly should be public knowledge, as can be brought on by stress, poor diet  or antibiotic use, and thats why doctors deny it exists, and that is a massive mistake, it cannot be diagnosed by a blood test. It was discovered back in the 1980s and has gone unchecked since then, so in my opinion has been passed from mother to child, as it invades the blood, it is a fungus it is also called Candidiasis or Candida albicans. I believe mine was brought on by stress, wow did I suffer that big time and over many years, I was a worrier and the situation I found myself in contributed to the stress load (lack of money), it was a constant drip drip of stress and over many years
Candida needs to be public knowledge as can explain a lot.


Goodtotalk, you are technically right to say that Tiger's doctors could be wrong, in the same way that my doctors might have been wrong all these years and I do not actually have MS either, despite all the hard factual evidence to the contrary.
But I think it is a little ambitious on your part (to put it charitably) to suggest - as I think you do - that Tiger's problem is quite possibly caused by some vaguely-defined 'syndrome' that you happen to have a bee in your bonnet about.  I think newly diagnosed people have enough to deal with without this kind of nonsense, quite frankly.
Alison


[/quote]
Goodtotalk, you are technically right to say that Tiger's doctors could be wrong, in the same way that my doctors might have been wrong all these years and I do not actually have MS either, despite all the hard factual evidence to the contrary.
But I think it is a little ambitious on your part (to put it charitably) to suggest - as I think you do - that Tiger's problem is quite possibly caused by some vaguely-defined 'syndrome' that you happen to have a bee in your bonnet about.  I think newly diagnosed people have enough to deal with without this kind of nonsense, quite frankly.
Alison
[/quote]

Well said Alison!  Goodtotalk also seems to have a misaligned atlas (?!), but not ms/possible ms from what I can gather, so probably isn't best placed to be offering support or advice on this forum?  Candida can cause a range of symptoms, but none mimicking ms as far as I'm aware.
anu
goodtotalk wrote:

Tiger,

Yes they could have it wrong. There is a condition called Candida, I discovered I had it, over a year ago. when peolpe hear the word Candida the automatically think of vaginal thrush, but NO not this baby, it is considered to be the silent epidemic, as you wont know you have got it, I didnt. It causes a multitude of problems, vitamin deficiency is one of them, and many many others from allergies to joint pain, it can also be misdiagnosed as rheumatoid arthritus, its absolutely astounding, I have researched the subject extensively over the last 14months, it most certainly should be public knowledge, as can be brought on by stress, poor diet  or antibiotic use, and thats why doctors deny it exists, and that is a massive mistake, it cannot be diagnosed by a blood test. It was discovered back in the 1980s and has gone unchecked since then, so in my opinion has been passed from mother to child, as it invades the blood, it is a fungus it is also called Candidiasis or Candida albicans. I believe mine was brought on by stress, wow did I suffer that big time and over many years, I was a worrier and the situation I found myself in contributed to the stress load (lack of money), it was a constant drip drip of stress and over many years
Candida needs to be public knowledge as can explain a lot.



Fee,
You have stated repeatedly that you don't have MS and you have been banned from here on several occasions for sharing your usually downright daft theories.
Don't you think newbies have enough to deal with?
Please go away.
Anonymous
Alison,
I'm not about forcing an opinion on someone, but to give them a choice or opportunity  to at least consider it.
I get worried and I'm not talking about you, when others are a bit dictorial and manipulative in what others are allowed to read or consider for themselves.
If I treated my kids like that they would go mad, to presume that I didnt think they are capable  of making a decission and I know best, they are 21 and 23. Even my youngest who's 14 knows more than I do on many subjects.

Candida can also cause brain fog, mood swings depression etc. etc.

I dont post info to get a reply, only if I ask a specific question. I post it as information, I have to limit the amount of time that I have to spend on this site, as I have other commitments, its only because I have the time these last couple of days.
What I have learnt over the years is that its not all about medical research only, alternative medicine is very relevant, I have a great respect for it, a great respect indeed.
Hark at me, I dont mean to get all heavy, I suppose what I am trying to say is, people can take it or leave





 
Anonymous
.....or leave it. I meant to say, oooops pressed the wrong button
LittleTiger it is awfully hard work coming to terms with an MS diagnosis (12 years in here, and it's work-in-progress.)  But the start is the worst, no question, and you are in the thick of it - it is very early days.  I am really sorry that this trouble has come to your door.  As I suggested in an earlier post, no, I'm afraid the chances of it all having been a horrible mistake are vanishingly small.  But it is the most natural thing in the world to cast around for something - anything - that might get you off the hook of an MS diagnosis.  We've all been there.  This is, I think, all part of the process of getting one's head around some very unwelcome news and slowly accepting it.  I hope that you will always find on here that there are people who have been in a similar boat, and who can help you on your journey, as I have been helped so much over the years.  Finding you have MS is bad news, no doubt about it, but it is possible to make a good life with MS.  Really, it is.  So hang on in there.
Alison
x
Dear LittleTiger x
I was diagnosed last year and I am still in denial about it. I spent years convinced there was something wrong with me and then I got the diagnosis and felt so relieved. Now I wonder if maybe they made a mistake. I think its a common response to being diagnosed. Good Luck my lovely x I braved going to a local MS meeting the other day with people who are working aged MS and so met lots of people newly diagnosed like me. I would really recommend it.
goodtotalk wrote:

Tiger,

Yes they could have it wrong. There is a condition called Candida, I discovered I had it, over a year ago. when peolpe hear the word Candida the automatically think of vaginal thrush, but NO not this baby, it is considered to be the silent epidemic, as you wont know you have got it, I didnt. It causes a multitude of problems, vitamin deficiency is one of them, and many many others from allergies to joint pain, it can also be misdiagnosed as rheumatoid arthritus, its absolutely astounding, I have researched the subject extensively over the last 14months, it most certainly should be public knowledge, as can be brought on by stress, poor diet  or antibiotic use, and thats why doctors deny it exists, and that is a massive mistake, it cannot be diagnosed by a blood test. It was discovered back in the 1980s and has gone unchecked since then, so in my opinion has been passed from mother to child, as it invades the blood, it is a fungus it is also called Candidiasis or Candida albicans. I believe mine was brought on by stress, wow did I suffer that big time and over many years, I was a worrier and the situation I found myself in contributed to the stress load (lack of money), it was a constant drip drip of stress and over many years
Candida needs to be public knowledge as can explain a lot.



Fee,
I don't understand why you are here spouting off about candida and misaligned atlas joints again? You have categorically stated in several forums (including this one) that you do NOT have MS amd even that you don't even believe MS exists as a disease. Please stop confusing the issue for genuine MSers and people going through the diagnostic process who come here seeking information with your own home grown half baked theories.
Or as Anu put it, "Please go away"

LittleTiger, so sorry your post has got hijacked buy this nonsense but your question is perfectly valid and enough to do anyones head in. Vit B12 deficiency is definitely one of the "mimicers" that is looked for in the diagnostic stage as the symptoms can be very similar to MS. But if your MS was diagnosed from the results of an MRI and a Lumbar Puncture I would say that you do have MS (sorry) and also have Vit B12 deficiency as well. Sorry again :-(   B12 will cause similar symptoms but it won't cause the changes found on MRI and LP that are characteristic of MS.

I have had MS for 9 years now and I still find myself graspinf=g at starws hoping that the Drs may have got it wrong and I don't really have MS after all. Not sure what else it could be that woud cause all these symptoms and disability but my favourite fantasy is that I don'yt actually have these disabilities eiyher and miraculaously I will eap from my wheel chair because it was all a mistake.... Sadly I think the reality is that I have been taking another of my frequeent holidays in Egypyt; I just love that river De Nile.....  And may be that is where you are going with the hope that the Vit B12 deficiency cancels out the MS diagnosis.

hugs to you

Belinda
Hi everyone,
Thanks so much for your responses, and sorry that I seem to of caused abit of trouble!
Ive been driving myself crazy over the past couple of weeks, and been pretty much attached to the internet looking things up :/
The other thing is, I've just changed neuros (had a few problems with the old one), and the new neuro has just done a new mri scan on me (didnt use contrast) and Im kinda of hoping he'll look at it and say I havent got ms? I asked if he wanted to do another LP and he said no as they got what they needed from that. So does anyone know why he would of done another mri scan?
Im going mad lol
Thanks again x
 
I have MS
Hi LittleTiger,
As others have already said, it's unlikely that your new neuro will say the original diagnosis was wrong especially as it was supported by an mri and a positive lp as well as the symptoms that led you to see a neuro in the first place. 
I would imagine that the reason that your new neuro has requested another mri is because you're his patient now. Some neuro's do order additional mri's further down the line too. I think the best thing to do really is to ask him to clarify things for you, but prepare yourself to be told that you do have ms.
The other thing I'd suggest is to try and steer away from googling too much. Sometimes it can cause no end of exra distress which you can well do without at the moment.  
It can be just as hard being told and accepting that we have ms as it can be when we're in limboland not knowing what it is. The difference is that sometimes we hold onto that hope that the docs have got it wrong and we haven't got ms at all crying1
Speak to your new neuro L.Tiger to put your mind at rest. Remember where we are if you need to chat 
(((hugs)))
Debbie xx